- Ivan Posey of House District 33 in Wyoming has a unique place in the Wyoming legislature this year.

He's a Democrat who flipped a Republican seat, and that goes against the script of the new all-powerful, all-Republican Freedom Caucus majority.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

Join us for "Capital Outlook."

(dramatic music) - [Narrator] Programming on Wyoming PBS is brought to you in part by Wyoming Humanities, enhancing the Wyoming narrative to engage communities with grants and programs across Wyoming for more than 50 years.

We proudly support Wyoming PBS.

- Welcome to "Capitol Outlook."

I'm joined this morning by state Representative Ivan Posey, House District 33, if I got that right?

- Yes.

- Tell us about your district.

What is District 33?

And it's unique in its way, isn't it?

- It is, Steve.

It's very unique, it's very diverse.

You know, it covers the south of the highway, going up to Crowheart.

- Talking about Fremont County here.

- In Fremont County, the center of our great state.

And covers mostly the area of the reservation, but it also goes up above Lander and up to Atlantic City and includes Hudson.

So it's a very diverse, you know, you got ranchers, you got tribal people, you have a outdoor enthusiast to utilize the Sinks Canyon area.

So it's very diverse.

- Now, you're a first-term legislator, but you've been around a long time.

Done lots of things, including working with the legislature.

I know in various capacities.

You were around when House District 33 was created.

And at the time, there was a feeling that it needed to be created because the probability or feeling that Wind River Indian Reservation voters and constituents weren't getting full fair representation.

And this would make it more likely that they would.

Were you in agreement with that concept at the time?

- You know, we was, as a tribe.

We was in agreement with that when they redistrict, you know, and did that, I think in the early 2000s or late 1990s.

We was, 'cause we felt that sometimes, we was overlooked on many issues.

I know that, you know, it went from a Fremont County representation to a more broader district.

So we was okay with that.

- Remind me, what's your tribal affiliation?

- My tribal affiliation is I'm enrolled Eastern Shoshone.

- [Steve] Right, right.

- My dad was Eastern Shoshone and Northern Arapaho.

- Oh, both.

- And my mother, she was from Northern Cheyenne Tribe in Montana.

- That's more common in Wyoming than people might realize, who think that it's either one tribe or the other.

But a lot of people have your tribal, similar tribal heritage, don't they?

- That's true.

You know, through intermarriage and obviously, that my dad came from that system.

You know, my grandpa was a Arapaho, my grandmother was Shoshone.

- But the district hasn't always been represented by an enrolled tribal member.

The feeling kind of is, well, this will make sure that that happens, but that's not necessarily true.

It's here you are.

- Yes.

- But it's been represented by Republicans.

By Democrats, you're a democrat.

- [Ivan] Yes.

- By men and women.

So there aren't many districts like that in Wyoming where we aren't really sure of what the election result is gonna be.

- Yes, that is true.

You know, we worked pretty hard to secure this seat, you know.

And I understood that there was Republicans, you know, Jim Allen and Sarah prior to my being here, but there was Pat Goggles and Andy Clifford.

So there's four people that proceeded me here on this seat.

And it's been a mix.

- There's a lot of talk this year about the big, the powerful new Freedom Caucus Majority, which is Republicans.

Democrats flipped a seat in the house, and you did that.

What made you decide to seek office?

- You know, I think it was representation.

Well, that actually what it was, was representation.

I really felt that maybe at least in terms of the tribal population and maybe outside of the reservation, other parts of the district wasn't getting a fair representation.

So that was one of the reasons I ran and I thought that I could do a better job in terms of representing the district, being the Wyoming-ite, being bor and raised in this area, and knowing a lot of the people.

- You've had an interesting background as a younger man especially.

I've heard a little bit about the story.

I think people who don't know of some of the things that you experienced early in your life would be interested to hear it.

Tell us a little bit about that.

- Okay.

I was born in Lander, obviously.

The youngest, I'm not young anymore, but the youngest of 13 kids.

We was raised on the North Fork up at Fort Washakie.

Lived in a four-room house, no running water.

And many of the families in the community was like that.

So we didn't realize there was really much difference.

But looking back, you know, it made us a lot stronger to deal with issues in life.

You know, we all went to Fort Washakie school.

I attended a boarding school in Oklahoma.

- [Steve] You did.

- Later on.

But I think, you know, I read a article where President Johnson in late 70 or '60s did the war on poverty.

And they sent people out to reservations and they came back with reports.

And these people live in extreme poverty.

We didn't know that 'cause we did.

That's just the way it was.

You know, so we was more and more defined as we moved along and as a people.

So, you know, it was a wonderful upbringing.

You know, there's challenges, but most of my siblings, my older siblings went to a boarding school as well.

- That is a topic that's getting a lot more attention nowadays than it used to.

Controversial practice at the time.

What was your experience there?

When you look back on it, what are your impressions?

- You know, when I went, it was voluntary, so we decided ourselves if we wanted to go.

A lot different times than what our parents and other parents went through, you know, in terms of the abuse and some of those types of things where you couldn't speak your language or we couldn't speak our language.

But I think over time, it kinda morphed into a voluntary system where, I don't know if it was by necessity that many went, because like with us, we had, as I mentioned earlier, Steve, we had a four-room house.

- Yeah.

- In the summertime, my brothers used to put up wall tents and then that's why they'd sleep during the summer.

So, you know, but it was very militaristic still that the system.

When I went into the service later on, I said, "This isn't too bad 'cause I'm used to this system."

You know?

That you have to make your bed, you gotta do details, you gotta do this, this, this.

So many that went to boarding schools, which a lot from my generation, experienced that.

And I think it gained some discipline to how you handled things.

- What was your military service?

- My military service, I was in the United States Army.

I was in my MOS, which is basically your trade is a 25C, I was a field radio operator attached to an infantry unit.

- You've done a lot of things in your life.

Lots of different public service type positions that you've had your employee of Central Wyoming College.

Now I know when you've had other diverse employment history.

Unlike some of the first term legislators, you've been around the block of a few times.

What in yourself do you wanna bring to the legislature?

What kind of contributions as an individual do you see yourself giving to the house?

- Yeah.

You know, it's a much more regimented system here in the house and what I was used to in tribal government.

You know, I was there in tribal government for 21 years.

I served as the first tribal liaison under Governor Dave Freudenthal.

Worked for nine years with the US Forest Service, the Shoshone National Forest.

So the governance and what I wanna bring to the legislature is a feeling that we really do represent the areas we come from.

You know, and that's really important.

I look at some of the people that came before me, and you know, your dad, one of them Harry Tipton.

- Thank you.

- Dale (indistinct).

When I was on a council.

At times, the state and the tribes had differences, but for the most part, we worked on stuff that was beneficial.

One of them was St. Stephens School.

Some of them was getting dollars from the Wyoming Water Development, you know, organization and to help with Ed Gates and so forth on the reservation.

So there have been instances where people got along in and got stuff done.

So I'd really wanna bring my experience, at least from the tribal governance side into the state governance system.

I realize it's already set, but at least bring a part of my knowledge there to show that there could be a fit there that benefits the people of the district.

Not only the tribal members, but the non-tribal members as well.

- We also have another show called "Wyoming Chronicle," which doesn't go on the air when we're covering the legislature.

But in that other show, I'm mean, Chronicle, I interviewed a well-known tribal leader as well.

Wes Martel, a guy I know that you know well.

I asked him if he'd ever considered running for the legislative seat that you now hold.

And he said never.

Because he felt that the tribal government should be dealing with the United States government, not the state of Wyoming.

You obviously feel differently about that.

How come?

What is the relationship between the tribes and the state of Wyoming that you feel you can contribute to?

- Well, I think the way I feel about that is obviously through treaties and executive orders.

We do have a direct relationship with the federal government.

The state government.

We're also citizens of the state.

You know, we're citizens of the state, we're state citizens of the United States, and we're citizens of our respective tribal government.

So I think there are things that do affect us from the state standpoint.

Driver's license, you know, jurisdiction issues that we could continually need to work on.

But yes, I understand my brother, Wes Martel's stance on that.

But I think there's areas that we could work on and improve, whether it's education, you know, our schools on a reservation except for the St. Stephens School, which is a borough of Indian education.

The rest are all public schools.

They have a direct tie to the state, you know, and we're going through some of those funding bills right now.

Some are controversial.

But yeah, there is a process and a need to have representation at the state level when it comes to some of those schools, you know?

- You're mentioning the education bills that are before the legislature this year, getting a lot of headlines and conversation.

Do you feel that they're getting a fair hearing or the debate on those is pretty good?

Are you getting your point of view heard, for example?

- Well, there has been some discussion on some of the early readings of those bills.

I think there probably needs to be a little more, you know, I realize that public education is something that held near and dear to the people of Wyoming.

It's one of the best systems out there, you know.

And to try to fix something that is not necessarily broke or has major problems doesn't make much sense to me.

You know, I really believe that we can enhance the system, but not by drastic changes, you know?

And as our old folks used to say, take your time.

Think about it.

How are you gonna affect other people?

And I think the education bills warrant that discussion, you know, and we will see where that goes.

- Yeah, you come from Fremont County, which is either unique or almost unique in Wyoming because there's so many public school districts in the one county.

- Yes.

- And some of them are in bigger towns like Riverton and Lander, but half the districts are more or less are on the reservation.

- Yes, yes.

- Aren't they?

And the demands and the requirements and the challenges, the difficulties of those reservation districts, those extremely rural districts where people live a long way apart.

They have particular demands, I guess, requirements if we're gonna do a good job there.

I'm assuming you're trying to make that clear to the people who are debating these bills?

- Yes, you know, there's obviously, I think there's eight districts in our county.

And we have an area like Atlantic City that homeschools.

And, you know, it falls under the Lander district.

But I think there needs to be a little bit more effective system for that group out there.

You know, I sat with them when I was on a campaign trail and that was one of the things is they're concerned about education and you know, how to improve that system that they have to go through, 'cause they have no choice.

You know, they're maroon.

They're probably half of the winter, you know.

And then of course, you got the Wind River District, the three reservation districts and yeah.

There's been talk about consolidation in the past.

You know, I don't think nobody wants that, but who knows what's coming down the road?

I don't think that'll happen.

But, you know, people say, "Well, you got a lot of districts in the county and probably the most school districts in the state."

- That's what I'm thinking.

- Yeah.

And so, but I think they all run pretty well.

- There has been consolidation in the past.

- Yes.

- But long time ago, and some people would say, "Well, the consolidation that we did was about all that we really can do realistically."

So that's not something you're favoring.

- Yeah, yeah.

Not really.

You know, I think when you take into account the realness of our communities, the historical attachment to those, you know, whether they're Wind River Cougars- - Very important, isn't it?

- Yeah.

- The local school district, the local high school.

- And local control - Is just such a big part of community life.

- It is - In Wyoming.

- You know, and when I was growing up and I went to elementary school at Fort Washakie, they didn't have a high school.

They do now, you know.

(indistinct) has one established for decades here.

Arapaho has a charter school.

So they're making a transition as time goes along to say, well, and my youngest son, he went to Washakie and graduated high school from Washakie.

Something that sometimes- - Your never thought about in your day.

- Yeah, yeah.

My alma mater.

But like I told him, I said, "Well, it didn't exist when I was here."

You know?

- So things do change.

It's an interesting education county in this way as well.

There are the reservation districts, which have almost exclusively tribal enrollment as you'd expect.

- Yes.

- But the big high schools do as well.

The most diverse district in Wyoming is District 25 in Riverton.

- It is.

- Which is not an all white school.

- Yes.

- By any means.

And, to me, how do you view that?

I think you might think that's a good thing.

- It is a good thing.

You know, I think it comes down to choice at times.

And I read a report a couple years ago where most of our tribal students go to District 25.

You know, since it's a one through K. And so that was kind of eyeopening to me.

I knew there was a lot of tribal students that went there.

I didn't realize the amount that went to Riverton.

- Yeah, they're more enrolled tribal students in Riverton than there are at Wyoming Indian.

- Yes.

- Just because it's a bigger district can accommodate more.

- Yeah, I agree.

- It's changing.

Well, sort of speaking to that, the bill that I think you're most associated with this year in the session has to do with gaming, which the tribes in Wyoming are heavily involved in without a whole lot of state government involvement.

Am I right about that?

- You're right.

You know, well, the Northern Arapaho tribe in the lawsuit that they filed and won in 2005, they're the only tribe in the country that self-regulate class three gaming.

In 2006, we signed, the Shoshone tribe, signed a compact with the State of Wyoming when Governor Dave was in office here.

And it basically mirrors the regulations that the Arapahos already had in place.

I think the aspect of this bill that I'm putting forward is regards to online gaming.

Which is more and more common across the United States.

- Now I can go online and make a bet on the- - You can, you could.

- Super Bowl if I want.

What does your bill do that's different from the way it exists now?

- Well, what it does is it allows the gaming commission from the state to promulgate rules once it's passed.

- I see.

- When it passes.

But it includes language that includes both tribes, which is not in the statute now.

- I see.

- And so, but there's issues regarding the geofencing.

You know, people actually have to be on the reservation to do a wager.

The chairman of the gaming commission for the state showed me the other day where, because of technology, they could identify where people are making wagers Wagers, they could be in Rock Springs or Shorten.

So there's a bunch of dots all over his computer where they do that.

But I think it would help, you know, the Arapaho tribe was already doing sports betting at their big casino.

This will just enhance that system a little bit more.

- Gaming's become a huge economic development engine for the reservation of the tribes, has it?

I'm sure you consider it to be vital now.

- It has become, you know, obviously, the tribes carry some debt through loans to build their facilities.

The Arapaho tribe with the Big Wind or the Wind River Casino was once the biggest employer in Fremont County.

I'm not too sure what those numbers are now.

- Still one of the biggest.

- It is.

It is still one of the biggest.

And you know, through the National Indian Gaming Commission, the tribes have to develop a revenue sharing plan.

A revenue allocation plan, which means that they have to submit this for approval.

Say 20% goes to education, 10% goes to healthcare, 10% goes to economic development.

So they have to develop that for the federal government through the National Lending Gaming Act of 1988.

So we'll see how the online wagering fits into that system.

- Where does your bill stand?

Here, we're here on Thursday morning.

We're in the halfway point of the legislature.

Your bill's been introduced.

What's the next step for it?

- The bill will be introduced today.

I'll present it on the floor.

- And you're the one carrying it on the floor.

- [Ivan] Yes.

- Do you have co-sponsors with you?

- I do.

I have Lloyd Larsen.

- Republican.

- Yeah.

Mike Yin, a Democrat.

- And Tara - Nethercott.

- Yeah.

- Republican.

- Republican senator.

Yeah, so those are the co-sponsors.

- So two Dems and two Republicans.

Again, just a demonstration that although the Republican majority is big, is powerful, obviously, can get passed just about anything it wants but that's not the whole story.

- It's really not.

You know, I think in order to get things done, you have to cooperate, you gotta negotiate, you have to give your case.

But I think there's a considerable, I shouldn't say considerable amount, but there's still amount of people that have that desire to do that.

And this bill, we'll see where it goes, you know?

But Representative Larsen Lloyd has been through this process, through the interim.

So when I came into office, it was already on the track and moving forward.

The tribes had shown interest to bring it more forward.

So he's been a big help there.

- You mentioned speaking to some voters in Atlantic City, for example, that's not reservation land.

When you're talking to voters, constituents, do you see yourself as a enrolled tribal member or as a legislator?

- I think I view myself in those instances as a legislator.

You know, when I worked for the Forest Service, I had to work with the many of the people in the community.

- Sure, you did.

- In that area.

- And that's a federal position besides.

- Yeah, that was a federal position.

And I served on the hospital board.

I served on the Lander Chamber of Commerce.

So in those instances, I'm a citizen also.

Obviously, I'm a tribal person first, but in those other instances, I adapt and I listen as best as I can in terms of what issues they may have.

- Let me talk to you about a personal issue with you.

I know you have some hearing loss.

- Yes.

- How does the legislature accommodate people with hearing loss?

- You know, for the most part, I think... You know, I got the implants on both sides.

One of my ears was service-related, so I had hearing loss.

And that I had a sudden hearing loss on my right side about five years ago.

It just went away.

Through technology, the implants have been a big blessing.

Here in the Capitol, they have a technology called telecoil.

And they said they have it in the chamber.

When I got here during our training in December, we tried to get it going.

It went, and I was thinking, "Well, that must be my processors."

I came back to find out that the cord or the cable that runs underneath was severed.

Because when they was moving the heavy desk that we utilize.

So the gentleman So the gentleman gave me a contraption gave me a contraption that I hang around my neck and it's just like our microphone system here, where I can't turn on my telecoil.

In the meeting rooms, in the conference room, where we have our committee meetings, our telecoil works very well in there.

You know, it's just like a, it'll go straight to my processors and it's like, we're talking here.

- Good.

You're one of the few Democrats in the house now and one of the very few in the entire legislature.

What role do Democrats have when there's the Republican majority is so overwhelming?

- Well, you know, I ran on the saying, I'm a conservative Democrat.

And I think that's what you need, really need to be in the state of Wyoming.

I understand that there's other ways that candidates go on that.

But, you know, whether it's Ed Herschel or Sullivan or (indistinct), they was very conservative.

I shouldn't say very conservative, but conservative Democrats.

And got elected to the highest office in the state.

But I think over time, and we're in the midst of it now, is, I think both parties need to do a little bit work need to do a little bit work on what their mission really is.

You see the change in the Republican party, I think you see the same changes to some extent in a Democrat party in terms of defining who they are.

We could define what they was, but down the road here, we're gonna have to have more definition of what it means to be a Democrat and what it means to be a Republican.

- Ivan Posey, House District 33 from Fremont County.

I appreciate you coming in in an early hour, which is about the only time you could swing it today.

And we're happy to accommodate that because you've got meetings, you've got the session.

You're carrying your bill later today.

- Yes.

- You said.

So good luck with that effort and thanks for being with us on "Capital Outlook."

- Well, I appreciate it, Steve, and I appreciate the opportunity to give some of my views.