- Few, if any, in Wyoming state government can match the economic development track record of State Representative Trey Sherwood of Laramie.

She's a woman, she's a Democrat, but her success can't be ignored.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

Join us for "Capitol Outlook."

(heraldic music) - [Announcer] Programming on Wyoming PBS is brought to you in part by Wyoming Humanities, enhancing the Wyoming narrative to engage communities with grants and programs across Wyoming for more than 50 years.

We proudly support Wyoming PBS.

- Welcome to "Capitol Outlook."

Our guest today is Representative Trey Sherwood, House District 14.

Do I have that right?

- Yes.

- You're from Laramie.

What's your district exactly?

So my constituents are in the northern part of the city limits, and so I have a great mix of students and professors and retirees, but it's all of Northern Albany County.

So some of my constituents live in Garrett, Wyoming, which is 2 1/2 hours when the weather is nice, mostly on dirt roads, to get out there.

And so- - Garrett, Wyoming, not a community we hear a lot about.

- Yes.

And they're lovely.

(laughs) It is such a lovely community.

And so a great diversity of my constituents in terms of socioeconomic and career path and multiple generation and ties to the university.

- How long have you been in office?

What was your first year of election?

- This is my third term.

So I ran during the pandemic.

I door knocked- - 2020.

- During the pandemic.

Yes.

- Third term, so by the standards of the emerging new Wyoming Legislature, you're a relatively senior person now, aren't you?

(laughs) - That (laughs) is an odd concept to consider, but I'm happy to impart any knowledge that was imparted to me throughout this process.

But it's about learning.

You learn something new every day as you do the work.

- Well, let's come right out and say it, you're a Democrat.

- I am.

(laughs) - And there aren't that many Democrats in the House of Representatives.

I think there's six this year.

Does that sound right to you?

- Yes.

- 56 Republicans.

What's that like in the day to day?

- I don't think it phases me much anymore.

I mean, I represent a red district, right?

So coming in and thinking about interactions and working on bills, I'm thinking about what's best for my constituents.

So most of the time, I just set party affiliation aside.

But there are times where it's actually really (laughs) freeing, that we have a lot of opportunity as the minority party to present a differing viewpoint.

And we can do that with, you know, confidence and we speak the truth, and just reflect a different approach.

When you think about the, just the numerical position that you and your fellow Dems in the House are in, what expectations do you have realistically starting a session each year?

- Mm.

My individual expectation is that I work hard, you know, regardless of what is perceived to be the outcome, and that I carry the voice of my constituents with me.

But, yeah, the reality that we're gonna get every bill that we file passed or every amendment that we run passed, that's not realistic, - But that's not really realistic for any legislator, is it?

(Trey laughs) - You're right.

You're right.

I think as long as we're approaching our work from a place of problem-solving, being grounded in Wyoming values, and reflecting our constituents, you know, as long as we're doing that every day, it's okay.

You know, we're trying to punch above our weight.

(laughs) - Interestingly, one, not you, but another Democrat said, "We might be decisive from time to time," because even within the Republican Party, there's this much-talked-about factionalism sort of going on.

And it could come down to the point where one side or the other, with Republican and the Freedom Caucus versus the, what might be called the Non-Freedom Caucus, the Wyoming Caucus is the term that's used, they might need a Democrat to push something over the top from time to time.

(Trey laughs) Have you found that to be true or could imagine that that could be true occasionally?

- I saw that more last session, that we were in a position to be tiebreakers.

This session, I have had some of my Republican colleagues come and say, "It's important to me to get a Democrat's perspective on this issue, and my goal is to make sure that there's a Democrat as a co-sponsor on all of my bills."

That was one individual.

And so I thought that was really thoughtful, to think about sort of the nuance in the approach of creating policy that, you know, different parties bring to the table.

And that purposefulness in seeking out our opinion was really appreciated.

I think one of the things I've learned this session, or was reminded of this session, is don't put your name on something that you're not willing to passionately go to the mic and defend, right?

So if it's something you're lukewarm about, you know, don't do it.

But on the other hand, one of my bills, which was brought to me by a constituent, it was the columbarium bill.

It was, you know, a cleanup to existing statute.

- Tell us what a columbarium is.

I happen (Trey laughs) to know, but you- - I had to Google it, right?

So when my constituent said, "Our permit for the columbarium got denied," I'm like, "What is that?"

So it is like a mausoleum, but instead of storing human remains, it's storing ashes and urns.

But it is a free-standing structure within our cemeteries.

- Where numerous individual urns could be placed together in a dignified, sort of ceremonial kinda way.

Yeah.

- Yeah, and we wanna make sure those structures are beautiful and structurally sound and weatherproof.

And, you know, our laws just hadn't been updated.

And so I use this as an example because it was the individual who manages the cemetery in Laramie and the individual who manages the cemetery in Campbell County who reached out and said, "We're both having problems with this."

And so then I reached out to Campbell County, you know, representatives and senators, and said, "Would you co-sponsor this with me," right?

And so there's members of the Freedom Caucus on that bill.

- So you've gone to them- - Yes, yes, (laughs) yes.

- To co-sponsor with you.

- Yes.

- And they did it.

- Yeah, because it was a problem that we shared in our communities.

- Isn't that interesting, how you, and I'm not saying this is true of you, certainly not anymore, but a lot of the new legislators that we read about and talk to and observe, they've come to the Capitol breathing fire about these, sort of these national kinda topics, I guess we'd put it.

"Well, I'm here to do this and to stop this from happening and to reverse this."

But then you get into the work of the legislature, and a lot of it is stuff like regulating cemetery rules, and they've never really even thought about it.

But if you don't think about it, you'll get educated quickly, won't you?

Because this is what a lot of the work is.

- Yes.

I find joy in that work.

It's small, you know, it may not be headline grabbing, but if it's solving a Wyoming problem and it's serving our constituents and it's making lives better in our communities, I'm all about it.

And so, yeah, a lot of it is that really thoughtful, tiny, incremental change that's made.

- And just automatically, then, people working together who probably or might've thought, well, we'll never work together, just in the abstract, but you're working together all the time.

- Yes, and that is my favorite part about this work, that it is incredibly difficult and challenging, as lawmaking should be.

It shouldn't be an easy thing.

But the most joyful part of it is when you can reach across the aisle and cut through those political differences and find commonality, and, you know, put your name on a bill with somebody who you didn't think you'd be aligned with.

- Hmm, we accomplished something today.

- Yeah.

Feels good.

(laughs) - We talked about the divide, 56 Republicans, six Democrats.

That's more, mathematically, slightly more than 90%, but in Wyoming, the Democrats aren't just 6% of the population.

- Right.

Right.

- It's considered to be 1/3 or maybe more than that.

So could the case be made the Democrats actually are underrepresented in Wyoming government?

- I would say yes, absolutely, as I still believe women are underrepresented in Wyoming government.

And, yeah, you look at the numbers, it's not reflective of the true, you know, population.

And maybe some of that is skewed because of our election laws, and people maybe who identify as Democrats, you know, registering and staying registered as Republicans.

You know, that could be in the mix as well.

And hard-working families, you know, having to have multiple jobs between parents makes it difficult for women to step away from family, family life and job responsibilities, to serve.

- Sort of related to that, it's often said, and I think there's evidence for it, that a lot of the policies that Democrats espouse are popular with people, yet when it comes time to passing bills, there's just this harder time getting it done.

breaking through to voters, even with ideas that they like, proves difficult.

- I think that we get caught up in, you know, the national narrative about what a Democrat is, what a Republican is, and we don't lean into the nuance of what are those parties in Wyoming?

Because I can guarantee you that a Wyoming Democrat is much different than a California Democrat, right?

- And I think it's been challenging for people to step away from that national stereotype and think about what it means to be a Wyomingite first and solving Wyoming problems first, regardless, again, of that party affiliation.

I don't know, but it doesn't discourage me, right?

I get up every morning and think, all right, there's another day, another opportunity to serve my community, move forward.

- You work in the non-profit realm, but also have had great success in economic development.

And I think some people in Wyoming might think that those two things don't go together.

Just because it's nonprofit doesn't mean it's not, can't be developed economically.

And, in fact, your work, through the Laramie Main Street revitalization effort that you've made.

And I would just say if people haven't been to Laramie for a while or driven downtown Laramie, it's not what you remember.

you were on our "Wyoming Chronicle" show a few years ago when Laramie had just won the Great American Main Street Award, (Trey laughs) one of, what, two in the nation that get it each year.

- Yes.

- And you've cited some statistics to me over the course of a decade, the number of net new businesses, for example, that opened.

We're talking about businesses, not painting murals on the wall, which is also a big and a really fun part of it.

But in terms of just dollars and cents, it's been very effective.

- Yes.

That was one of the reasons I ran for office, is to work every day in supporting entrepreneurs and- - Entrepreneurs.

- Our business creators.

- Businesses.

- Right?

Our people in our community that have a vision for a service.

And they work on their business plan, they negotiate a lease, they think about how to market and communicate with customers.

And I get to walk beside them every day in that journey.

And it's hard, it's really hard work.

And one of the reasons I was motivated to run was not seeing policies at the state level that were right-sized for our small businesses, that were right-sized for our entrepreneur who was already living and working in our communities.

- These sound like Republican ideas.

(Trey laughs) I mean, honestly.

Here you are, a woman, a Democrat, but you've walked the economic development walk, and can cite chapter and verse on how it works and what will work and what's successful.

Didn't you just tell me that something like in a 10-year time, there were a hundred new net businesses in downtown Laramie?

- Yes.

So when I started, almost 15 years ago, there were around Like, 180 or something.

And now we're around 300.

And we've had a steady, on average, 10 to 11 net new businesses every year, even during the pandemic - In this same physical space- - Yeah, 28-block space.

Just small, slow, incremental growth.

And we know not every business makes it, you know, and some businesses close and others sell, and there's always that churn, but like net new businesses, averaging 10 a year.

And so that's been incredible, incredible to see that growth.

- There's gotta be lessons.

You were starting to talk about this before I cut you (laughs) off to make sure you cited your success, but there've gotta be lessons for the legislature in what you're doing.

You're trying to carry that message, I presume.

- Yes.

Yes.

So understanding, again, like, you know, sitting and crying with somebody as they're trying to start their business and understanding the barriers they're facing.

And then how can we, through law-making, remove those barriers is part of it.

But I also see the value in investments.

You know, and so whether that's a low-interest loan or whether that's a grant program or whether that's the business council providing technical assistance, I see the value both in removing regulatory burden, but also in providing financial investment to our entrepreneurs so they can grow and create jobs.

And so I'm looking for ways, as we're creating policy and laws, to enhance both of those strategies.

- And it isn't, because you have no control over any purse strings, particularly.

I mean, you know how to fortify some money if it's available sometimes through.

But it isn't, "Government, give this business a half million dollars."

- Correct.

(Steve claps) Walk away and be done.

- That's not what you do, because you can't do it, for one thing.

I'm assuming that many of your clients are, is that the word, the people you work with are Republicans.

- And I've never asked.

- Do you even know?

You don't ask.

- I have never asked 'cause it didn't seem necessary to ask.

Like, here's somebody who comes and says, "I wanna be successful in opening a business downtown."

That's all I need to know.

(laughs) I've never considered political affiliation, religious affiliation, you know, none of it.

It's just this person is passionate, and I wanna uplift that passion and I wanna help them navigate, you know, the system and find success.

So I don't survey my businesses on their- - Do they tend to know who you are, do you think?

- I mean, they do now, and that was really hard.

That was actually one of the hardest things, in saying, "I wanna take the leap from nonprofit community leader, serving businesses, and I wanna run for office."

And there was a lot of hesitation about if I declare a party affiliation.

Because I think before I ran, nobody knew my party affiliation.

- [Steve] Interesting.

- And then the moment I did, it did create some fallout and heartbreak, which is hard to think about.

You know, my desire to serve doesn't change just because of my party affiliation.

- Yeah, and it goes again to what we were touching on a little bit earlier.

It seems odd, but the moment that some people learn, well, this is a Democrat, it's almost like the work you've done and the track record you've built, proven, somehow becomes devalued in a way.

Or, well, all of a sudden, I guess I don't wanna, my businesses to succeed.

I mean, do you run into some of that sometimes?

- I did and I do, and it's heartbreaking, right, that there are.

And it's a minority of businesses who decide to engage less with the work that I do outside of the legislature because of that political affiliation.

And I'm like, my desire for them to succeed doesn't change just because of the letter behind my name.

- One thing that I recall from our earlier interview, that I'll always remember and I've repeated numerous times to others, I said, "When you go, are encountering a business person, entrepreneur, and that person says, 'Well, what is it that you need me to do, paint the mailbox the same color as next or put a horseshoe over the door like everybody else is doing or put up the same?'"

And your answer was, "No.

What I need you to do is tell me what you need from me.

What I can do for you.

Because I can help in a lotta different ways and want to, but I need you to be honest with me and say, 'What I need is a better, fill that pothole in the alley or better parking next door or a new furnace.

Or something, these little things that could help me hire one more person.'"

Something like that.

So there's no set formula to it, except immersing yourself in it and being ready.

- Yeah, and so to say, I think that same answer applies to constituents.

You know, like the best way that I can serve a business or a constituent is to know what they need.

And sometimes in Wyoming, we don't verbalize our needs, you know?

We think we have to go at it alone.

- [Steve] Good point.

Yeah.

- And so that is, you know, to break through that is a trust exercise.

And once somebody is vulnerable with you and opens up and says, "This is what I need," then it's my job to follow through with that and not to break that trust.

- What committees are you on this session?

- I am on Appropriations, which I love.

- [Steve] That's a biggie.

- I love the process.

I love every day learning something new about our state agencies.

And then outside of session, I get to serve on the Wayfinding and Exhibits Committee.

So as a historian, I love that work, to be able to tell the story of Wyoming's history within the walls of the Capitol.

It's really fun.

- Well, right outside our studio here, in fact, is this sort of a lobby area for an auditorium that's been, that was part of the Capitol revitalization.

And there's almost always an exhibit of some sort there.

And before long, the big governor's art exhibit, I think, will be lining the hallways as well.

It is a lotta fun to look at it, and you get to be part of some of that.

- Yes, yeah, so I get to learn just these gems of stories of, you know, everyday Wyomingites and the difference they made by being civically engaged in their communities and in their state.

And then the aesthetic part of the work we do, in terms of going to the archives and pulling historic images or engaging with, you know, artists that are capturing shared values, it brings humanity into the space.

I remember as a freshman, when I started, when we finally got here in person, it was quite beautiful but sterile, the walls.

And then, today, you see that there is artwork up in every committee room and there's these really beautiful interpretive panels.

And it's, to me, very grounding and humbling to know that we are walking in the footsteps of past Wyomingites who served and sacrificed.

And it's a great opportunity just to pause and consider that we're just tiny pieces in the rest of, you know, Wyoming stories and stories that will come.

- Yeah, real people doing real things in the community.

We both mentioned this sort of adherence to, or immediately turning in the direction of the national glare, but local stuff is where it's at, isn't it?

Local government and local entrepreneurship and local business and local arts and culture things.

That's where people are working and where things are really happening.

- Yeah, that's where my heart's at, right?

That's where we, I think, can find commonality and healing and shared stories as we sort of define like what is the future of Wyoming?

I think that definition bubbles up from a very local level.

- Well, what is the future of Wyoming?

- I think- - What do you hope it is?

- You know, I'm a closet pessimist, right?

Like, I always lead with optimism, but there is a sense of heaviness right now, and it may be a sense of unknown, of the challenges that are created by allowing national politics to influence what we do here at the state level.

However, however, we heard last night, at Leap into Leadership, some really beautiful, inspiring stories from women who have stepped up and served.

And knowing that Wyoming's future will still be tied to a sense of equality and equitability and fairness.

There's always that sense of grit mixed into the work that we do.

And knowing that Wyoming has historically and, I think moving forward, will always define its own future and set aside itself as the trailblazer, you know?

I think it'll be bumpy, but I think that we will find our own destiny moving forward and away from national politics.

- I've always worried that this adherence to and attention paid to the national narrative that's kind of come and sort of placed upon us, it trivializes who we are and what we're trying to do.

And that's something we should guard against 'cause we're real people here doing real stuff.

- Yeah, so I think we should hold firm to our independence and our live-and-let-live mentality.

You know, we talk a lot about throwing off the shackles of, you know, federal government and federal overreach.

I think some of that will start to happen by default with, you know, policies of this current administration.

And so I think always holding true to who we are as individuals and community members, and how we love and care for one another is what will define us moving forward.

- We're here in the last, what's intended to be the last, well, it's about one full week to go after today, we're here on a Thursday.

where do some of the big issues stand, where do some of the big issues stand, especially in terms of what you're trying to do?

You're on Appropriations, for example.

That's a big supplemental budget process that has to be wrapped up here pretty soon.

How are you viewing that?

- I think that's stalling out, unfortunately.

And if after we've taped and the story, you know, the outcome is more optimistic, that will be great.

I'm happy to eat my words.

But I think that we may not see a supplemental budget pass, and I think we may see some piecemeal of, you know, what are our shared values that are in that supplemental budget in terms of wildfire relief or funding for our schools, funding for our communities?

You may see some Hail Mary moves in trying to put those appropriations in other bills.

We may also see a special session to come back and reconcile that we weren't able to come to an agreeance on spending policy.

- A lot of that comes down near the end of the session, to these things called conference committees, where people are named to the committee.

The committee is created suddenly.

You haven't had a conference committee meeting every week all through the session.

But now, are you involved in that process, or expecting to be, or would like to be?

- Oh, I would love to be, and historically have been.

You know, as a member of Appropriation, it is traditional that if there's a disagreement on a supplemental budget or the biennium budget, members of Appropriations sit down.

Unfortunately, this year, I have not been appointed to that committee, so I won't be able to help assist to get the budget across the finish line.

- Hmm.

Interesting.

Across the finish line.

It's a long session.

This is the odd-numbered year where you're here for two months, essentially.

You mentioned even though you live in Laramie, you make it a point to actually stay in Cheyenne during the session.

You're not trying to drive back and forth over the mountain every night.

How come?

Most people, I think would, well, (laughs) if I could sleep in my own bed, (Trey laughs) I'm gonna do it.

But you're a little different.

- And I'm homesick, but my policy has been that I need to be 110% focused on the work here, right?

You know, to do right by my community.

And so I do unpaid leave.

I step away from my day job.

I move over here.

And every night, I prepare for the next day.

You know, I read through bills.

I think about amendments.

I think about how to improve policies.

And so instead of driving back and forth, and having the comforts of my own home, I'm doing the people's work up until, you know, 11, 12, 1 o'clock at night because I feel like that's the right thing to do.

- Well, not long after we're done here today and we just about are, I mean, you'll be right back into the lion's den, so to speak.

Looking forward to it?

(Trey laughs) - Oddly, yes.

I mean, (laughs) it has been a very long session, a very challenging session.

But I try to look for just everyday moments and opportunities to find connection with my fellow representatives, to tweak a bill to make it better.

And knowing that it's hard, but it's so worth it.

- That was my next, you almost took the words- - So worth it.

(laughs) out of my mouth.

Difficult, incremental, but worthwhile.

- Yes.

- Worth the effort.

- Yes, worth the effort.

I have a heart for service and I can't imagine giving back in any other way.

Representative Trey Sherwood, HD 14, House District 14, from Laramie and Garrett.

And it was a pleasure talking to you.

Thanks for making the time, and thanks for being with us on "Capitol Outlook."

- Thank you.