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(upbeat music) - Perhaps no other voices are as easily recognized in Wyoming as those of Dave Walsh and Kevin McKinney.

For decades, one of the great broadcast teams in all of college sports have brought us the sounds of Wyoming Cowboy football and basketball.

Their chemistry is admirable.

Dave and Kevin, next on Wyoming Chronicle.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Funding for this program is made possible in part by the Wyoming Humanities Council, helping Wyoming take a closer look at life through the humanities.

Thinkwy.org And by the members of the Wyoming PBS Foundation.

Thank you for your support.

- And it's my pleasure to be in the Wildcatter Suites here at War Memorial Stadium to be joined by Dave Walsh and Kevin McKinney.

To both of you, welcome to Wyoming Chronicle.

- Thank you.

- Thank you, happy to be here.

- I had to get my calculator out to figure out all these statistics about you two, but let me see if I have them, that I'm close.

Dave, you've been calling Wyoming Cowboy football now for 38 seasons, is that right?

You called basketball games for the Cowboys for 37 seasons.

- 36.

- 36, okay.

- Yeah, 37 seasons doing basketball.

Yes, this is my 38th year.

- You're doing Wyoming seasons.

You're from, you're a San Diego native.

You went to San Diego State University.

- I did a lifetime ago.

Yes, a long time ago.

- You can't forget to throw in the one year, 1997, when you called in the Pioneer League games for the Billings Mustangs.

- Yes, and that was quite a year.

Mustangs won the championship that year.

And the thing I remember most about that was just all the bus travel to follow the Mustangs.

But when the Mustangs were playing in the finals against Great Falls, the Cowboys opened the season at Ohio State, I had never been to Ohio State.

So I flew from Billings, went and did the Ohio State game that year, and then back to Billings to finish up the finals.

So yeah, that's a year I'll never forget, not only because of the Mustangs, but that, playing in the horseshoe, and starting off the season that Cowboy football season was special.

- As long as Dave has been around this place, Kevin, of course, you've been here even longer.

A native of Cheyenne.

You've been a part of the University of Wyoming for even longer.

Providing color for the Cowboys for 24 seasons.

But for the basketball team, even longer.

I had a little trouble nailing it down, but this your 49th year.

- Well, I have a hard time nailing it down because I had just started full-time here in '72.

And so a year later I started with Jean Benson doing basketball.

And just simply because I traveled with the team, and he asked if I wouldn't mind helping him.

So I talked to Bill Young, who was my boss and he said well, yeah, he says, "You're not gonna be able to do it at home, but I don't think anybody would mind if you did it on the road."

So I did that with Jean for a few years and then with Larry and then with David.

- How did you two meet?

When was the first time you guys got to meet?

- Well, in '80, 1984, when I got the job, I was in Casper for a couple of years doing Wildcat at basketball games.

I don't know, I think we might've crossed paths and met then, but when I got the job in '84 is when of course we became close and started working together, doing basketball games together.

So I think that's probably when we first got to-- - Really, we certainly knew who he was and when he was hired, I remember Dave would come down on Fridays and we'd sit at the house and visit and really got to know each other, I think on those Friday afternoons and evenings, because you would stay here on Friday night, would you not?

- I would come down.

- Working in Casper at the time, right?

- Yes, he was working in Casper.

- For the first two years, I did Cowboys '84 and '85 was still living in Casper working in Casper.

But yes, I would come down on Friday night, do the game.

I'd usually head right back if the weather was good, back to Casper.

- [Kevin] Always as good as Wyoming, always good weather.

(David laughs) Not a problem.

- Well, we immediately hit it off obviously we're doing games together and working together, but our kids, have grown up together.

And so we've a pretty close bond for a lot of years.

- And I think that's one of the most interesting things to me as you guys are not just professional work colleagues, you guys are great friends and I'm not under describing that in any way, am I?

- No, it's hard to hard to do this job.

I think if, if you don't care for the other person, and so yeah, it became a great friendship.

- I think we just have such a tremendous respect for each other.

And that happened right away.

I mean, this is the most talented guy I've ever worked with.

He makes our broadcast so good.

So that part was easy.

We're in, I think we both had the same goal as far as we just wanted to do the best radio we could, and describe the game and do good broadcasts.

Which I think we've done.

But I knew right away that we're gonna be pretty close because we had the same kind of passion for the game.

And nobody has much passion for the Cowboys, in the university of Wyoming as Kevin McKinney.

But kind of got caught up in it right from the start.

And a lot of that was because of this guy.

- I remember when I first heard his voice and I'm going, holy cow.

Yeah, that's big time.

And I knew that he was going to make us big time.

Cause I didn't work with him in football at the beginning, it was just basketball, but I'll never forget that being so impressed just with the voice alone before I even really knew him.

And that was I thought, you know what, we've got ourselves a big time guy.

- Dave, you studied sports broadcasting at San Diego state.

- I did.

- Why the interest, what, what got you going early on?

- You know I knew at a very early age that this is what I wanted to do when I grew up.

- So, ho was your mentor early?

Who did you like to listen to?

- I fell asleep as a young lad.

I had the transistor on my pillow.

I'd fall asleep at night, listening to Vince Scully doing Dodger games and Chick Hearn doing a LA Lakers game.

So those are the two that I remember.

And there were some local broadcasters, Al cooper was one in San Diego back then that was doing San Diego state.

And Keith Jackson was big back then in college football.

And of course, now that I mentioned those first two guys, they were radio guys, but I was so into sports and athletics that I watched a lot of TV.

And my first really idol was Curt Gowdy.

He was doing the FL games and of course San Diego AFL team.

And it was a big fan of the Chargers back then.

But those are the people that I listened to and grew up listening to.

But I was very young, I was eight, nine years old when I knew this is what am gonna do.

I would love to do that, actually had the chance to and when I was in junior high school, played on the junior high school, Chula Vista junior high basketball team.

And I had injured my knee and we played back in those days, played outdoors, played on a cement.

The junior highs in Southern California played outdoors on a cement slab.

And they had speakers set up for a PA person.

Well, I'd hurt my knee and I couldn't play this.

So why don't you the PA and just do as much as you want.

And here I'm in junior high school, I think I was 15, 14 and I started doing play by play.

- Would love to hear taking that Dave.

- Well, and the thing is that the people loved it.

So that was kind of the first inkling that I knew.

I think I can do this, but that's what I wanna do.

- We're gonna talk about present day college issues here in a little, but to use a metaphor, both of you could have maybe entered the transfer portal and went elsewhere, but neither one of you have Kevin, you've stayed here.

You've stayed in Wyoming a long time.

- Well, it's my home.

And I had a couple opportunities almost went to Iowa state once.

Erickson wanted me to come to Florida, which I knew I wasn't gonna do that.

I had a young child and I wasn't gonna take him down there, but I did take a job at the Western athletic conference in the conference office.

Went and interviewed and they offered me the job.

And I took it so I came back and Gary got in-- - Was that in Denver at the time.

- That was in Denver, and Gary Cunningham was our athletics director.

And he says, what did they offer you and I'll match it.

So he did and I had to call Joe Kearney, he was the commissioner and turn it down.

But once I got through that, I wanted to stay here.

It was a different world than in terms of you want to have longevity in your job.

You didn't want to move around.

And in my business, which was sports information you needed the respect of the media.

They wanted somebody who they felt like was telling the truth to them.

And so that's what we did.

We stayed.

And many of the guys in the league who were very good friends of mine, they all stayed as well.

So we had guys that were around their schools as long as I was here.

So I never did think about it after that.

- Tell me if I have this progression right Dave.

Larry Bollard, Gary Gallop, Mike Nolan and then you, is that how play-by-play announcers have worked across the way here at will War Memorial stadium for football.

- I think so, I think Ray Lansing actually did.

- Ray Lansing he did one year.

- One year.

- Yeah.

- So Ray Lansing was in that mix right before I was hired in '84.

But yeah, that's a pretty good bunch there.

And I had the opportunity of course, to work with Larry in the last many years that he was on the air, which was fantastic.

But yeah that's pretty much the line there.

- Here was Larry doing it for 42, 43 years, and then we had these guys for a little bit of time, and then here comes Dave to do it 38 more years.

And Wyoming's very fortunate because I think a lot of places have that progression that you mentioned where guys aren't there very long.

And you're really lucky when you have that voice.

- All right, take us around the country now.

Best place to call a game on a Saturday afternoon, Saturday evening is where?

Besides here.

What has been the place that you've walked into and have just looked around the place and just thought oh my, this is something.

- Well, there's quite a few really.

- Sure.

- I think of places like Tennessee, where there's 107,000, and I'll never forget looking before we went on the air, looking at the back of the booth, right there on Peyton Manning way and seeing, 20,000 fans, form an aisle for those players to walk down here.

So just, I think that's a great place.

We we've done games at Florida.

I think they've got a pretty, I'm talking about some big stadiums, Texas A&M was quite quite a sight.

Now I must say-- - (indistinct) All that stuff.

- Oh yeah, they'll join you know that whole crowd will join arms and do this rocking.

- Causes you motion sickness doesn't it?

- And you can literally feel, you can feel the booth moving under you.

Those are, those are some great places.

- Kevin, what's on you mind?

- Well, I would say that A&M was the most fantastic place we've been.

And as Dave said, we've been to Tennessee and Georgia and Florida.

But just the atmosphere of A&M and holding arm and arm and all the things they did that was tradition, throwback type things.

I think that was fabulous.

I really enjoyed Nashville.

We had a game in Nashville against Tennessee, and that was a pro stadium now.

And the location of it and the way they handled things, I think for our business, for what we do, they were just fantastic.

I enjoyed the death star here last year in Vegas.

The new Raiders stadium that was quite the place, but for tradition we've played at Texas and I was impressed with that for sure.

But A&M was just something special that I, and all these other places that we've mentioned, they're all big time.

And they're exciting to be in.

It was as exciting for us as it was for the players - Sure.

- To be there really.

- I mean, the horse shoe at Ohio state that's, we could go on and on because the Cowboys has gone some amazing places and played.

Now I will say this even at A&M and Tennessee, as far as doing a broadcast, not that easy because you're up so high that the field is - Not much (host laughs) - Yeah, you do most of the game on binoculars, which, I prefer being able to set the line up and then take my blockers down, calling the play, but you couldn't do that there.

We also did a basketball game when Wyoming played in the NCAAs, went to the sweet 16 and played a basketball game in the old Seattle kingdom.

- Oh, wow.

- And we were literally way up there and that court that was about that big and it was doing a basketball game.

So we've done a few of those, but there's no place like the, like North Carolina to do the basketball game there.

- The big time places are big time and no doubt.

I think it was right Dave, we went in the press box was almost over the court.

We were looking down almost on their heads.

And that was one of the oddest I think we've been to.

- We made mention that, it'd be really nice if they were, if the players were like players waterpolo on their head.

- If they had number on top of their head.

- That would have been helpful.

- Yeah all right, now you can be honest here.

We won't share this with anyone.

- Okay.

- Any, any standing, you'd rather not go back to, to call a game?

Any, any stadium that, you know what, I didn't really enjoy calling a game there for whatever reason.

- That happened this year.

- Oh, excellent.

Okay.

Yeah.

- That a few places, I think-- - Power outages aside maybe.

- Right.

- Northern Illinois is the worst single place.

- As far as, there was a small booth, we were crammed in.

Not a good view.

Now I'm onto Missouri state.

If I never had to do a game I was gonna start of by this but if I had never had to do a game at Colorado state again I'd be fine.

(Kevin laughs) - We've got a brand new stadium down there.

- We did, which has a giant, our booth has a number of big posts right there.

We have to do this and at the new CSU state.

But I never enjoyed doing games at BYU very much, I must say.

But for other reasons, I mean, it's for just the surroundings and the way the fans can be in.

- Speaking of giant posts.

This question has always been on my mind when Alan Edwards was coaching at Wyoming, he came and sat in front of you guys.

How in the heck did you call a game when he's sitting right in front of ya?

- [Kevin] Its frustrating.

- How did you do that?

I don't know how you did it.

- [Kevin] It was difficult.

- Yeah, did you ever like want to come on coach, how did you?

- Like to what I'd like to sure.

But as far as doing basketball now I have, for 36 years always broadcast right next to our bench.

When we were on the other side before the renovations, we were right next to the bench.

And I just think that's where a basketball play by play guy should be.

And now there were times when maybe it'd get a little too noisy on that bench, or maybe there was some things being screamed and yelled and said that it came out over our air where we'd have to-- - Stop working.

- Yeah, that happened occasionally.

But I still think that's where a guy needs to be to do game correctly.

When there are players and they can report to come to the go right in front of us.

So that helps.

But yeah, there's been some times where we've had to do the old-- - Oh my gosh.

I've had to stand up, to see, yeah, there were.

- You probably didn't get a call a game in the old field house Dave did you?

- Did not.

- Yeah, you did though Kevin, and I've got to tell you as a fan and I'll be criticized for this, but I almost enjoyed watching games in the field house more than the beautiful arena auditorium.

And I remember the cowgirls would play oftentimes right before the Cowboys and you had to go, you had to sit down and if you left, that was it.

You didn't, get to keep your seat.

You were closer.

They built the old court right on the dirt there.

And I really enjoyed watching the Cowboys play there.

Did you enjoy it too?

- Oh yeah, in fact I would say the same thing.

I always felt it was the best home court advantage of all the places I've ever been.

And when we played our last game, which was UTEP, and we lost.

- [Host] We did.

That was one of the biggest downers I've had here, because I wanted to win that last game in the field house.

Brandenburg had won some big games there and won some championships there.

But I go way back to when I was a kid, my first game in the field house was like '57 or '58.

I went with my dad and, I was used to story gymnasium, which was quite a gymnasium.

And back in the day in Cheyenne and I got a feel of the field house for the first time.

I'll even now never forget that the Cowboys were playing Michigan state, which I didn't know a whole lot about that there wasn't a big tent or anything, but it just felt so big time to me.

And to see us leave, we had a beautiful new arena and it was gonna be great and all that, but I didn't wanna leave that place.

- The best cowboy game I ever heard on radio Dave was July 20, excuse me, January 28th of 2002, and the reason I think it was the best game was longest game ever played in Air Force Academy history.

And I think it may have been the longest game ever played in Wyoming's history.

And what I remember is your final call, the score, all of the score in four overtimes.

First of all, I'm sure you remember the game.

What's the Genesis of the score of the score.

- That's a great question.

I'm the first to admit I'm sure somewhere when I was probably heard the might've even heard that, but I don't know, growing up, my mother used to say something, oh something, just to accentuate.

So it actually came out I didn't even know I was saying it more or less.

Way back when I was doing high school football games and Brawley, California and I remember saying it just like the first time I ever said the Armani of analysis, it just came out.

(host laughs) And I asked that we get to the break after I said it.

And I was kind of, when you're on air, it's all live and it's going on, you kind of just as a play by play guy, and has it, I mean, you described, or you say these things.

And, but I had mentioned, in the Armani of analysis, Kevin McKinney and I kind of paused after I said it.

And then he went on talking, we get to the commercial break.

And I had leaned overnight.

I said, is that okay that I said that.

(laughing) So as far as the score of the score, it just came out way back when, and I was kind of half embarrassed by it.

And I didn't even think about it much, but then the next day I get calls and people called and said, that was, where did you?

That was, I said, I don't know, but it only comes out obviously when Cowboys win only after victories.

And it's something that people have come up to you and said don't you ever stop saying that?

So I thought about it, that's kind of a silly phrase.

But when you're just like them and I like saying it-- - [Host] Yeah.

- That's gonna continue.

- Good for you.

Kevin I want to ask you about the best cowboy basketball game I ever saw, but it was on television so I wasn't at it, but I bet you were.

I'll give you some hints and see if you can-- - BYU.

- Yes, Okay.

There were more friends of mine in my dorm room than points leading score Dwight McLendon had in the game, which was 10.

The final score of the game was 27, 25.

There were 22,000 people watching the game in the Marriott center.

Doesn't hold that many people anymore.

Greatest basketball game, every possession mattered.

There wasn't a shot clock.

It wasn't a three point line.

Everybody says, well that must've been about the most boring game there ever was.

And it wasn't by any means.

You remember that game?

- I do.

Now it was that the one that the Cowboys win to host the tournament here?

- No, it was earlier on in the season that was later in the year.

- Okay.

- Great game too.

- I remember the low score and the fact that no shot clock.

We had several of those cause we play Haskins and he would play it the same way, but that's not what they were used to in the Marriott center.

And that's what we really weren't used to, but that's how Jim felt he could attack them.

And it's always great to leave there.

We've said this for years to leave that place with a victory.

I don't care what it's in.

But to leave there with a win like that, that wasn't my best BYU game.

- Was it the Danny Ainge game?

- Yeah.

That was my best.

- And then two days later with Utah?

- Yeah.

- They were both nationally ranked at the time.

- Yeah.

- The thing that I remember about the Danny Ainge game with BYU is he blew the layup.

- Yeah.

- At the end of the game, which he made against Notre Dame in the tournament, just a couple of weeks later, are we on the same page.

- We are, and he also missed a free throw.

He was like a 94% free throw shooter, never missed.

And he missed free throws that helped us in that game.

But that would be that one and the Utah championship game.

And the AA that we did, the Wyoming won that game.

Interestingly, most of those greatest games we won, I don't know how that works, but it works for us though.

- I does work.

- But that double overtime in the field house against BYU was just one of the greatest games I think I've ever seen.

Then, as you say, we beat Utah on Saturday.

So to sweep that series, that was a great era of Cowboy basketball.

- It really was, I came over that morning to get in line.

It was just over after six o'clock.

I have to get in line for tickets.

And that was common back then.

And now we're gonna get in to get into maybe some present day conversations about what's what's going on in college sports.

Dave and Kevin, and it was a big deal to be able to go to a college basketball game then, because you had to earn your way into the field house in those years.

And now in the AA, it's a large place and attendance is kind of waning just a little bit.

And there's a lot of things that are influencing that.

Are you concerned about maybe, and it's not just in Wyoming, but I don't know that middle-schoolers in Wyoming appreciate the Cowboys like I did, like you did growing up?

I'm worried about that.

- Yeah and we talk about that all the time in the athletics department, because the students don't come to the games.

Especially in basketball, like they used to.

And I think that there are many factors.

One is we haven't been great for one thing.

When we were really rolling with Brandenburg, they were here and even in the AA, but they have so many other things they can do.

And we always say, well, they can't walk from the dorms over to watch a live game.

They'd rather do a call, whatever it is and all that kind of stuff.

I think that's what they do do.

And as far as the younger kids, they have their own events.

They're in soccer, they're in the youth everything's, which is great.

But when I was growing up, maybe when you were growing up, we didn't have much else to do.

We didn't have organized leagues and teams and games.

We had Lily baseball when I was growing up.

And that was in the summertime, the rest of the year-- - [Host] School sports.

- Yeah, school sports, that's all we had.

And so we looked forward to the games that I always came over with my dad.

So I was very fortunate there, but a lot of my friends did.

They came with their parents and then that's what we did.

And they have a lot of outside influences nowadays that draws them away from us.

- Well, I know Kevin, I've read that one of your most favorite games in history is when Arizona state was here in the early seventies, it's the first game I ever saw.

My folks brought me down.

We sat right over there, directly across from where we're sitting today.

I'll never forget it.

And I'll never forget any of the games, the first night game.

- Oh yeah.

- Against BYU.

My wife and I drove down here from Laramie where you were a part of that, the snow game when Miami was down 14, nothing, and Phil Davis was a quarterback and it started to snow.

And that was the end of that for BYU that day.

And there's just been all the history that's here, and I'm right there with you.

There's no better place to be than right here or right over there when the Cowboys were playing.

- Yeah.

- In my mind.

And in Wyoming has not been shortchanged in the broadcast booth over the years.

And to both of you, I want to thank you for appearing with me on Wyoming Chronicle.

Hope You're here for a long time.

And the day I leave this good green earth, I hope that it was just like my mother who was listening to you two on her last day.

- Oh, wow.

- So thank you very much for joining us on Wyoming Chronicles.

- Thank you for having us.

- We look at this as a great honor to do the games and we never take that lightly.

So we appreciate it.

(upbeat music) - Funding for this program is made possible in part by the Wyoming Humanities Council, helping Wyoming take a closer look at life through the humanities.

Thinkwy.org and by the members of the Wyoming PBS foundation.

Thank you for your support.