- Nobody has a bigger job this year at the 68th Wyoming Legislature than State Representative John Bear of Campbell County.

He's the co-chairman of the powerful Joint Appropriations Committee, and he has more influence on how the state's money is spent than any other person.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

Join us for "Capitol Outlook."

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- Welcome to "Capitol Outlook."

Our guest this morning is Representative John Bear of Campbell County.

What's your house district?

- House District 31, Steve - 31.

Tell us a little bit about, or is it the city of Gillette, is it an outlying region?

Who do you represent?

- I represent the east side of Gillette, and it's all inside city limits, - What was your first year of election?

When did you first win?

- I was elected in 2020 and started serving in 2021.

- Okay, so you fit this profile that's increasingly common in the legislature nowadays, representatives, senators without a huge amount of experience who've risen to leadership positions, and that's certainly your case.

You took office in 2021, now it's 2025, but you've already achieved one of the big important posts in the House, and that's co-chairman of the very influential, powerful Joint Appropriations Committee.

How did that come about that you got the committee chairmanship?

- Well, I think it really has to do with a lot of work that's been done over the four years that I've been involved.

And it has to do with a lot of grassroots support for things like the Wyoming Freedom Caucus, which I was the chair of for the last two years.

And that movement has really just led to a real seed change in what the legislature looks like, at least on the side of the House.

And because of that majority that now exists, people like myself that were in the leadership of that movement, you know, are now serving in leadership positions in the government.

- Yeah.

What pulled the trigger for you and made you decide, "I think I'll run for office"?

I wasn't looking for it.

I got a small business, which I've since sold just this last year, which I've since sold just this last year, but, you know, people started asking me when a position was opening up if I would do that.

And of course, I was flattered that they thought that I could perform that, that representative job, and so thought about it, prayed about it, and decided, "Yeah, I would go for it."

And unfortunately for my wife and a lot of people around me, I dive in headfirst when I do these things, and it's become all encompassing, if you will, and worked hard at it, and there's been some good results Were you the kind of person who followed legislative business before you ran for office?

Were you up to date on that sort of thing and into it?

- That's a great question, and I was, to some extent, with some issues that concern me.

My business, I got to see all of my representatives and senators.

I had a dry cleaners, and I took care of their suits, so had a lot of opportunities to discuss policy with them as they'd come in.

And so I was engaged to some extent, but like most Wyomingites, I think I was more focused on what was happening federally because that's what's on the news.

And so I really wasn't focused on the machinations of state government.

- [Steve] You sure are now, though.

- Oh, I'm getting a real quick learn.

(laughs) - It just has to happen.

How different is it, I enjoy asking lawmakers about this.

How different is it from the inside compared to the outside?

Do you think the average person has much of an idea of what a legislator's job really is?

- Probably not.

I think, like myself, you know, I mentioned diving in headfirst.

Not every legislator does that or needs to.

So there's a range of how involved and how encompassing it can be.

I think the people that see results from my work are probably very pleased with the, you know, what's coming out, but they really probably don't know how much of my time it takes to accomplish that.

My wife would be happy to tell them.

(laughs) - I mean, I'll let people in on it a little behind the scenes here.

We're here at just a little after six o'clock in the morning because you've got a committee meeting later this morning, then the session, and then who knows what the rest of the day is gonna bring, but it's gonna be be a busy one for you.

You've mentioned you're a business person.

Business training, I assume you believe, is very useful in legislative work.

- Absolutely.

Taking, you know, those principles of good service and providing a product that the people are pleased with and willing to come back for more at the same time of being fiscally responsible and making something enduring are all applicable to what we do here in the legislature.

- You're now the co-chairman of the JAC, the Joint Appropriations Committee.

What's your definition?

What is the JAC?

Joint means it's got both House members and Senate members.

You take it from there.

- Well, it's the committee that really determines how the money will be spent.

You have to have a smaller group of people make those decisions so that the bigger body doesn't have to get into the nitty-gritty of every detail that the departments and the agencies are dealing with.

you know, us part-time legislators have to get pretty deep.

And so not all legislators can do that, so this committee does that.

And as in most any republic, the legislature controls the purse strings.

And so this is probably the most powerful committee of committees because we determine what money is gonna be spent on what.

And so it's a huge responsibility, takes a lot of time to really make good decisions so that you're not creating unintended consequences.

- Compare it just for a moment for me to the Revenue Committee, another big money committee.

The difference between the two is what?

- Well, the Revenue Committee is all about the taxation on the different entities that create revenue for the government.

And so it's just a matter of making decisions on how those revenue streams will come into the government.

And in the case that we've had recently on property taxes, that's the committee that determines what kind of tax relief are we gonna provide to homeowners.

And they've seen a lot of increases in their property taxes over the recent years.

There's a huge demand to provide some relief from all those increased property taxes.

And that's the committee that does that.

I was on that committee for the last two years.

And it is a good tie-in with the Appropriations Committee, which then takes whatever revenues there are and determines how they'll be spent.

- So Revenue is, here's the money, Appropriations is, here's where the money's gonna go.

Well, you talked about one of the big, big issues, which is the property tax concern.

This is not the first session that it's been in close to the center of the debate.

Where do you think it all stands?

There are more than one bill.

There are more than a couple of bills, just like last time.

Where does it stand then?

- Well, let me tell you from my perspective, the end goal should be to let the taxpayers keep some more money in their pockets.

And that's not really happened very well through the last four years of the Biden administration.

We've had tremendous inflation that has impacted everyone, including the government.

But also, you know, we've tried for four years to create that relief and let the people keep some more of that money, and we've really been spinning our wheels.

There's a few small efforts that have helped going forward, but nothing that went back and said, "Hey, we took a lot of your revenue, helped us get through this inflationary period of the Biden administration."

But honestly, you know, you've had to cut back, so government should have to cut back as well.

I've worked very hard on that on the budget side, just in the supplemental of making reductions in spending.

And I'll tell you, Steve, my philosophy on that, first of all, is simply that we need to slow the growth of government.

Many times conservatives will say we need to cut government.

And I don't think that's a winning message, number one, and I don't think it's really, it's not applicable to the state of Wyoming.

We don't have people coming and saying there's a great deal of fraud, waste, and abuse.

Is there some?

Absolutely.

And we'll certainly root that stuff out as conservatives that are working on budgets.

But back to the tax issue, we tried over the last four years to get some things across the finish line.

They've either not passed in one chamber or the other or the governor's vetoed them.

And I think that we're going to see something get to the kitchen tables this year.

It's probably not gonna be as much as I'd like it to be.

But I'm one of 93, so I can't determine everything for everyone.

But we cut $235 million out of the governor's recommended budget.

So that's more of that government increase.

Of course, we're in the middle of a two-year budget that we passed last year.

- So the thing you're talking about, this year is what we're calling the supplemental budget- - Correct.

- and just things that have cropped up that the governor is recommending based on things he's observed or- - Yes, and a big one- - (speaks faintly) different.

- is fire mitigation.

We had some big fires, and that's an emergency.

That's something we didn't anticipate when we created the budget last year.

So we do need to address that, and we are.

And then there's other things that you could argue back and forth, whether, you know, really the government needs more money in the middle of this two-year budget, to expand or not.

We've held the line pretty well, both in the JAC, the Joint Appropriations Committee, and in the House.

I think the Senate gave back quite a bit more than the House did.

But we're getting ready to negotiate those differences out now, and that'll be exciting to see what kind of final product we can put on the governor's desk for a supplemental budget.

- What you just said reflects of where we are sort of are in the session.

We're past the halfway point, and we're now to the level of the stage of it where legislation is no longer sort of being introduced.

It's now we're trying to pass it, figure out what the final form the bills might take is gonna be.

You had your name on a lot of bills coming into the session.

How come so many?

- Well, you know, being a leader of both the Wyoming Freedom Caucus and the conservative movement, not the leader, but a leader, a lot of young conservatives are new to the legislature, and they came to me and would like to see my approval of their work.

And so my co-sponsorship have to do with that.

Sponsorships of bills is a different story.

I have never sponsored as many bills as I did this year.

And a lot of that has to do with my philosophy, which I think really matches up with the governor's as well.

He said in his tenure that he'd like to see a simplification of our budgeting process.

We should have one checkbook, one savings account, just like people do at home, and it should be transparent where people can tell what the government is doing.

And I'm a real proponent of that.

I brought a lot of bills that have kind of cleaned up our finances and made it pretty simple and straightforward.

I'm undoing the work of legislators, you know, for decades by simplifying this stuff, and unfortunately, there's only about five people in this building that really understand exactly where the money comes from and where it goes to, and that's just wrong.

And so a lot of those bills that I ran this year had to do with doing that, and it would take a lot more bills.

And of course, I got most all of those passed in the House.

- I'm gonna ask what's your batting average been so far.

Pretty good?

- Well, of those types of bills, I've got all but one of those.

So I ran 12 bills this time, and 7 of those have passed the House.

And so I'm pleased with that.

Two of those were election integrity bills that had to do with the Five and Dime, which the Freedom Caucus championed.

That was five important bills or five important issues.

that we wanted to get completed in the first 10 days.

That's the Five and Dime.

And we got those out in eight days, and now we're waiting on the Senate to take action on those.

- Are you one of the five people who understands the money chain, do you think?

- Not yet.

(laughs) I am learning very quickly.

- Are they legislators or other people in government?

- Some of them are our staff that have been doing this for, you know, years and years.

They understand it and they need to understand it.

- They're important, yeah.

- And I lean heavily upon them as I'm making decisions.

But probably two or three of those are legislators and I would say I'm well on my way to becoming one of those.

But I don't want it to be just myself.

And I've made much to do about transparency from the previous JAC and their relationship with the governor.

And I will continue to do that because I think that the body of those 62 House members and those 31 senators really need to be the final arbiters of these decisions.

It shouldn't be two or three legislators really determining the course of the state.

- Even though you could be considered to be one of those, that's not how you want your service to be.

- You know, Steve, one of the things that I've learned over the years of my military career and my time working for Fortune 500 companies in leadership as well as my own businesses, is that if you want to have something enduring, it really can't be dependent on you.

You have to get other people to buy in to the vision, you have to give other people an opportunity to take over, and you need to be able to step back and really be supportive as other people bring their ideas and their influence over the direction of an organization.

And so my hope is that this conservative movement that you've seen take over the House of Representatives, that it continues to grow, but it's not something that's a flash in the pan.

And most everything I've accomplished in life has been with that end, that it's not a flash in the pan, that it's enduring, that people can depend on whatever that is, whether it's my business or whether it's my family or whether it's now the legislature.

- What role do you see in what is considered to be sort of a new era for debate in committees or on the floor?

Is everything completely cut and dried already or are you finding that there's still room to move and to change and for opinions to change sometimes?

- Steve, that's a great question, and I will tell you that when I first arrived in the legislature, it was probably more staunch than it is now, and it's going to take years for that to break up to be more of a influencing your fellow legislators when you're in debate than people coming to the body already staunchly in a position that can't be budged out of that position.

And I think when I look back to our founding fathers and the way they debated issues, they were very open-minded, but they were very knowledgeable about the things that they were debating about.

And if we can continue to create that kind of atmosphere, and I'm all for it, I do want the speeches on the floor and those debates in committee to make a difference in people's hearts and minds that are making those decisions.

I know that I have changed my mind- - That's my next question.

- about things as debate has gone on, because it's nearly impossible to think of all the angles on every issue.

And so you have to depend on people with more expertise in a particular area, and when they say something influencing about that, we have to be open-minded and listening so that we can get that knowledge ourselves and make a good decision on our vote.

And I think that as people see that the voting bloc of the conservatives is really flexible, and that's been proven out over the last two years, but it'll continue to be proven out, and if we continue to have that flexibility within our body, you'll have people being more insightful and more flexible in their ideology.

And I think it'll be good for the people of Wyoming if we do that.

I don't think you could have ever come up with the American experiment in having a republic that's designed the way this one is, that decentralizes power and allows it to be a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.

You can't accomplish that without those open minds, without that willingness to listen and truly realize how important your vote is.

- An earlier guess sort of hit on the same thing you're talking about.

I said, "What's been your experience outside nuts and bolts of legislation?"

And she said, "Well, I realize that not everybody agrees with my great idea.

You think your idea is the best thing and they're just gonna knock their socks off when they hear this great thing that I'm gonna bring up.

And that's not always true.

In fact, often it isn't true.

But as you mentioned, they'll listen to the idea, and a lot of times," she realized, "they made my idea a little better than it was before."

- Yeah, and I think very much the same way.

I am a hard, hard worker, and that's why probably I've accomplished as much as I have with the support of my colleagues.

But sometimes I get out in front of my colleagues, because those good ideas, if you haven't taken the time to convince your colleagues that it is a good idea, then you run up against those roadblocks of, "Wait a minute, I'm not sure I agree with that."

So there is that, and that's a good indication that people are not willing to just follow someone just because they trust them and they've maybe believed in something that they've done in the past.

- There's a disagreement and the person has the disagreement for a reason.

And sometimes I guess that reason is to be contrary, but sometimes there's a considered opinion there, I guess would be the careful word.

Are you finding you like the work or is it more, "This is a responsibility I've been elected to do, and by golly, I'm gonna do it"?

Or do you enjoy the immersing yourself in it and doing the tasks?

- Steve, that's an interesting question, because I look back on my time in the Navy, which as you rise in the ranks, it becomes more and more political.

At a younger age, I didn't appreciate that.

I wanted to work hard, I wanted my results to pay off, and I didn't relish the idea of doing the political work to encourage others and get others' buy-in.

And I learned over the years that that's really important for that longevity, that enduring outcome that I mentioned.

And so I tend to really enjoy it now, probably more than I should.

(laughs) - Well, I suppose that beats the alternative of hating the job.

If you could, and maybe you can't answer this, but I'll give you the chance.

If you could snap your fingers and address, I guess I'll say rather than solve maybe, this property tax issue in Wyoming in a way that suited you the best, that you think would be the best, is there a bill there that's doing that, or are we not quite there yet?

- There's no one silver bullet as far as the bills that are out there.

I don't think there really is one, because things are moving very quickly.

The markets that led to these huge increases in property taxes, those are changing, at the same time, inflation may be coming down.

But at the same time, I think the silver bullet that might be out there is a pretty simple one.

It's just that the state of Wyoming really doesn't have a revenue problem.

We have a spending problem.

And if you look at the per capita spending of this state compared to others, it's very, very high.

And so if we can just slow that growth down, I'm not saying we stop growing, and I'm not saying we go backwards and cut, you know, to where we're not providing the services that we- - Part of the legislature's job is to spend money, honestly.

I mean, you have to do it- - It is.

- to an extent.

- It is, and it's easier to control that spending in hard times than it is in good times.

And I'm hoping that some of the work that I did and some of these bills put a few constraints on politicians so that when times are better, we're not going hog wild and just spending all the money that the economy creates for the government.

And so that we can keep our per capita cost down, or however you wanna measure it, keep the cost of government limited.

That's what our founding fathers really envisioned.

And that will allow Americans and Wyomingites to live life the way they want to if we can just keep government from growing too fast.

- Representative John Bear, you have an important meeting coming up.

You need some preparation time this morning.

You made time for us, which I do appreciate.

And good luck with the remaining weeks of the session.

I can tell you're gonna be trying hard at it, as I hope everyone else is.

Come up with some solutions that'll work for as many people as possible.

I think that's your goal, right?

- It is.

Thank you, Steve.

I really appreciate you having me on and letting me share with your audience.

- Okay, thanks for being with us on "Capitol Outlook."

Welcome back to the Capital Outl 2025 marks the centennial of an event in Wyoming history and in history.

Nellie Taylor Ross took office as the governor of Wyoming.

Not only was she the first woman to be governor o she was the first woman to be governor of any state in t 100 years later, she remains the only female Wyoming governor We're joined by State Senator about the history of women in Wy politics.

Why is Nellie Taylor Ross important to us 100 years l Still, she was an incredible leader for the state, for the country.

This is a time for us to celebra that 100 year anniversary.

January 5th, 1925, the United States of America elected its first female governo right here.

And it was in Wyoming.

That's right.

Continue with the first for Wyom and a first for Wyoming and a really pioneering.

Yeah, remind us what you mean by Well, it's important for Wyoming to recognize that we passed wome and the right to hold office in 1869, long before we were a state, back when we were a territorial counc really demonstrating the type of pioneering leadershi And so we can continue to be proud of that legacy and remember those historical ma for us.

As our Wyoming women continued t both in Washington, D.C. and here in your state capitol.

One of the the mistaken impressi that I've experienced in talking about Governor Ross with others.

She did succeed her husband, William Ross, as govern But some assume or say or believ that she was simply appointed as kind of a co because he died in office.

That's not what happened.

It isn't what happened.

She was legitimately elected by the people of Wyoming, that she beat out a male opponen and thus fully elected and serve as governor as she was defeated thereafter in the next campaign.

Oddly, partly because and I thin it was not so unusual then today it seems just bizarre to think a She did really didn't campaign for the office.

She did not contain.

And she admitted that that she chose not to campaign.

I think just part of her comfort and her personal choice.

And she was governing and didn't feel maybe it was as nece as it really was.

And so for politics then to 100 years later, if you don't fight for the race, probably not not be successful.

And so she wasn't.

However, she did go on to be the female appointed to the United S and she didn't have a long caree as governor, just a couple of ye But in that position, she served a long time and got a if she was in that position for 20 years now.

So really a remarkable a continued, remarkable legacy for William Beloved to lead abou at that level as well.

And that's a presidential appoin right?

It is.

And she had to go through more than one president signifying that the next president was pleased with what she was doing.

One of the things I think she di establish the Ben Franklin half as I recall.

She did.

As director of the Mint And she you know, she led a huge department for 20 which which was unprecedented during that totally.

Yeah.

To have a woman lead an agency, lead employees, and to continue doing all of the social changes that we experienced in America from the twenties to the fifties You know, we're in the midst of a legislat session now, and the legislature is taking some action to recogni Governor Ross and commemorate he What is that?

So I have sponsored a joint reso and a resolution is simply an official statement of the leg acknowledging our former governo Nellie Taylor Ross, for this historic time of this 1 celebration of her being elected the first female governor in thi still the only 100 years later i Yeah, that's right.

Worth doing.

I like I like the chances of tha resolution passing both houses, I do.

I have good sponsors in both cha all women, and I'm confident that we can see it through.

Senator, now, thanks for staying with us to talk about Governor Nellie Ta on the centennial of her taking Thank you so much.