(no audio) - [Announcer] Funding for this program was provided in part by the Wyoming Public Television Endowment and viewers like you.

(lilting upbeat music) - [Host] Wyoming PBS, Wyoming Public Media, and Central Wyoming College present "Election 2022: The Wyoming U.S. House of Representatives Debate," live from the Robert A. Peck Theater on the campus of Central Wyoming College.

- Good evening, and welcome back to the campus of Central Wyoming College.

I'm Craig Blumenshine.

Just moments ago, we concluded the gubernatorial candidates' debate.

Up now is the candidates' debate for those who are seeking Wyoming's lone seat in the U.S. House of Representatives.

I wanna note that this debate is being broadcast live both on Wyoming PBS and the Wyoming Public Media Network and on social media platforms.

Three of the four general election U.S. House candidates are with us this, are with us this evening, excuse me, and I would like to introduce them to you now.

Marissa Selvig is a Constitution Party candidate, Richard Brubaker is a Libertarian Party candidate, and Lynnette Grey Bull is a Democratic candidate.

Republican candidate Harriet Hageman was invited to participate in tonight's debate, and she declined our invitation.

We, again, have three panelists who have joined me tonight and will ask the candidates questions.

Again, I'd like to introduce them to our audience, long-time publisher of "The Ranger" newspaper in Riverton and current Wyoming PBS public affairs producer Steve Peck, Katie Roenigk, a long-time reporter for "The Ranger" in Riverton and current County 10 reporter, and also Kamila Kudelska, the managing editor of Wyoming Public Media.

Again, just like in the last debate, every candidate will get the opportunity to answer each question, and we know, again, that we will prove to the state and the country that we can have a civil, thoughtful debate.

The candidates, here again, have been briefed on the rules for the debate.

They have all accepted those rules, and we are ready now to begin.

So the first question from Mr. Peck is for Ms. Selvig.

- Candidates, good evening, and welcome.

Wyoming PBS has hosted statewide televised debates for many year.

Participation among ballot-qualified candidates has been consistent.

Tonight, however, one of the major party nominees has opted not to debate her ballot opponents before our statewide audience.

There's no law requiring a candidate to debate.

It's up to them, but this development tonight is unusual.

As you see it, what would be a good reason not to participate in a public, statewide debate?

- Well, first of all, thank you so much for hosting the debate tonight.

I think that it is very unfortunate that the other candidate is not here.

The voters of Wyoming deserve to hear from all of their candidates.

So your question is what would be a valid reason to not participate?

I don't know, a death in the family would be a reason not to participate that might be valid, but I don't think that there is any other reason other than a health issue or a family emergency to not participate in a debate because informed voters make better choices.

And as I said previously, I think it is imperative that the voters of Wyoming hear from every candidate that they have to choose from.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Wyoming's very lucky.

Most states, the citizens do not get the opportunity to have debates from third-party candidates.

A lot of states actually do what they can to block them.

Wyoming is very lucky to have PBS to do this for us.

The only reason I can think that Harriet would not show is that she feels so confident that everybody will vote for the big R that she does not need to communicate with we the people.

And that is the only thing I can conceive of why not to appear and talk to we the people.

Thank you for doing this, PBS.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Grey Bull.

- Yes, hello, Wyoming, and I concur with my fellow candidates here with me.

You know, it is really a disservice to Wyoming to not hear from all of the candidates that got past the primaries to come to a debate and discuss topics that is important to Wyoming.

What is a good reason to not attend and participate?

You know, again, I would concur and say that, yes, maybe a family emergency, maybe a death in a family, God forbid.

But, you know, I do believe also that she is just so confident, you know, in her winning the race that she doesn't feel the need to share her thoughts and her ideas, her policies to the rest of Wyoming.

Honestly, and I say this as gracefully as I can, but I believe that, not only is it a disservice to Wyoming, but it's a cowardice move.

And Wyoming doesn't need a coward.

Wyoming needs a leader.

Wyoming needs a voice.

Wyoming needs people who are able to stand up to anybody and anyone.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Selvig, you have an opportunity for additional comments.

- No comment.

- Mr. Brubaker, the next question is for you from Katie Roenigk.

- Wyoming's U.S. House seat has been filled by a Republican for decades.

What is your role as a minor party candidate in this race, and what would you say to encourage voters to support your party instead?

- Well, I realize that the Republicans have a strong grasp on our state House race, and I run for those people who are tired of the big government, who want to have a rebellion.

I would much prefer a rebellion at the ballot box than through the gun sights, and I'm offering this opportunity for those people who want to voice their dissatisfaction to vote for me.

Libertarians are extremely small-government oriented, reduce taxes, and it's just the simple fact that I'm running to provide people with the opportunity to voice for me.

My odds of winning the lottery are probably greater than my odds of winning this race.

So, yeah, I'm offering people the opportunity to rebel against the big government.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.

Ms. Grey Bull?

- Wyoming deserves choices.

Wyoming deserves candidates who stand on value that is shared by fellow Wyomingites.

and for myself, this is a lot different from my last cycle running for House.

I really do believe that, myself, and I'm pretty sure the other candidates on the stage would agree, you know, if everyone believes that this win for the U.S. House in the state of Wyoming is about party affiliation, I would ask Wyomingites to look a little bit deeper than that.

We have a Republican candidate who is banking to win based on Wyoming being a Republican red state.

And I think, again, that is discounting the intelligence, discounting Wyoming's values and what we stand for here in Wyoming.

And I believe that Wyoming, again, deserves choices.

Wyoming deserves candidates who are able to speak to the issues at hand in a bipartisan manner.

And I will say, in the last 10 years, I've been involved in lobbying, both on a state and federal level.

All of my work has always entailed working with Republicans and independents across the aisle.

That's something that I'm not afraid of.

However, again, Wyoming deserves to have choices and Wyoming deserves to have everybody on the ballot that stands up for values that is shared by the fellow state and neighbors.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, I have to agree with both of my opponents here.

I think it's good that Wyoming has choices.

It is good for us to rebel at the ballot box, and I would say, as a Constitutionalist, what do you really want in government?

Do you want more of the status quo?

Because if you vote for the Republicans or the Democrats, you're just gonna get more of the same in Washington.

And I would encourage you to vote for me because I am not beholden to either of the major parties, the Republicans or the Democrats.

Now, I would probably caucus with the Republicans in Congress because they err on the side of constitutionality, but I would challenge you voters to take a chance on something new, because more of the same and doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

So let's not be insane people.

- [Craig] Mr. Brubaker, additional time, if you would like it?

- Well, just it's a fact that, like I say, you know, we need to start thinking of who we're voting for.

And if they're not gonna talk to us, how do we know who we're voting for?

- Thank you, next question for Ms. Grey Bull from Kamila Kudelska.

- How should the state address climate change while not destroying the state's economy?

- You know what, that is a great question, and that's something that I thought about for the last five years.

I have family and friends who work in the oil and gas industry.

I have family and friends who worked previously in the coal industry, so it's not something that is, you know, that I don't understand.

You know, all of my policy and my thoughts on working on change always comes down to how does it affect families?

So, for example, let's talk about Wyoming families.

Wyoming families have been impacted by the coal and gas industry.

They have moved out of state.

They have been hit with poverty because of the loss of these jobs.

And don't take my word for it, do your own research.

Look at the coal and gas industry.

Look at the numbers from year after year in the state of Wyoming.

It continues to decline.

We are in a unique position to transition to renewable energies and still be the leader in the energy industry.

We still have an opportunity to create jobs and economic development for this state and, you know, not be detrimental to our climate, and also to protect it with our environment.

But again, I think about families.

I think about people.

How is it gonna affect day-to-day Wyomingites?

Wyoming should not be losing families and should not be losing Wyoming citizens.

We should be sustaining them by creating jobs and transitioning to renewable energies in a 5, 10, 20-year plan for the future.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, the question is how should the state address climate change without disrupting Wyoming's economy, correct?

So I think that climate change is a tricky issue.

I think that the climate is always changing.

The sun has a lot to do with our climate, and I think that the people of Wyoming and the people of America are very adaptable.

Handling the climate would be a state's issue.

I don't think that the federal government should be inserting itself into making sure that we are protecting ourselves from climate change.

I think that we need to disengage ourselves from some of the climate agreements on a federal level so that the state of Wyoming can be free to do what they choose because the 10th amendment applies in that situation.

Nothing about the climate is enumerated in the Constitution, and so I think that that should be left to the state and the people.

And there are certainly ways we can handle climate change concerns in the state of Wyoming, thanks.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, I won't deny that we have affected our climate.

When I was about this tall, I crawled up on the old Ford and Dad explained how a motor worked.

And I said, "Well, what happens when we burn up all the air?"

And he explained to me the cycle of air.

Now, I think we are burning more carbon than is being cleaned.

The simple fact is, that carbon originally was in our atmosphere.

The carboniferous age, we were at a very high level.

It was a greenhouse.

That's why we have all the coal and oil and gas buried in the ground.

We were actually teetering on the verge of a glacial period on our greenhouse gases.

Water is also a greenhouse gas that nobody ever mentions.

I can't remember, it's a little bit more than CO2.

The simple fact is, it wasn't that long ago.

And I did have the wonderful accidental opportunity of talking to two young meteorologists doing research above Timberline, going out and getting samples out of big logs this big around in those little patches of blown-over spruce that were this big.

They were studying the last time we were warm.

And I've seen trees that were humongous, but I think this whole global crisis thing is a farce to make big corporations more money.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.

Ms. Grey Bull, extra time?

- It is absolutely the federal and state responsibility to protect our climate and our environment.

It is a disservice not to protect the climate and look at scientifical views on how our climate is being destroyed year by year.

And for example, for Wyoming, we have Dinwoody Glacier that continues to decrease at a rapid pace.

So, again, don't take my word for it, look at the studies.

Look at the studies that CWC do on the Dinwoody Glacier that we have here in the Wind River Mountains.

I understand how climate change is impacting that.

(alarm beeping) - Thank you very much.

Ready for the next round of questions, candidates.

Again, for Ms. Selvig from Mr. Peck.

- Wyoming is the least populated state in the union, a fact which many residents of our state probably think is just fine, but the political reality of that is that the winner of this election will be the only U.S. House member from Wyoming, and a freshman at that.

What impact, realistically, can our U.S. representative have in a 435-member Congress, and how would you approach that situation?

- Well, thank you for that question.

I think that, especially as a minor party candidate in a House of 435 and being a freshman, I think that someone who is new can have a lot, can make a lot of difference.

I was asked recently in a online questionnaire, what would I do in my first 90 days of office?

Well, first of all, I'd like to read Article One, Section 8 of the Constitution live on the House floor, because I think a lot of legislators go to Washington and they take their oath of office to uphold and defend the Constitution, and then they throw it in the garbage.

And I think that that's unacceptable, so I would like to be a strong voice for constitutionalism.

I would also like to put a Constitution on every desk of every congressperson with a handwritten note that says, "By the way, you just took an oath to uphold and defend this.

Don't forget what you just said."

And so I think not being afraid of ruffling feathers of the Republicans and Democrats can be something good for the state of Wyoming and for America because we need to take a stand to make sure that our country is free again so that we can restore the liberty of our nation.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, as a Libertarian, and Libertarians do have a bit of a reputation around the nation, if I were elected, I'd be a bit of a celebrity, which would allow me to promote Wyoming somewhat.

And it'd also give me more political clout because I could bring up issues and be in front of the media because of this Libertarian movement.

The Libertarian Party has gained a lot of people in voter registration in various states.

Wyoming over doubled their Libertarian voter registration in the last four years.

And that's the whole thing of it is we don't have much of a voice if we can't get to the people.

We have to be able to speak to the people.

And the people are the ones that have to call for the federal government to reduce spending and reduce regulations, bring our jobs home and bring our troops home.

We need to stop wasting money on these oversea, unconstitutional wars, and stop sending our children off into harm's way.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Grey Bull?

- It is no, you know, you guys can see that I am a Native American candidate.

I am both Hunkpapa Lakota and Northern Arapaho.

I don't want people to vote for me just because I'm an Indigenous candidate.

I want people to vote for me because I stand up for people who need it the most.

I encourage people to look at my resume and look at the work that I've done.

I have a history and a career of advocating for people who need it the most.

If elected, I have a long list of things that I would like to do when I'm in Congress, but one of the things that would help put Wyoming in a great light is actually putting equality in the Equality State.

The state was founded and has a history of promoting women leadership.

I would like to honor that.

I would like to honor my ancestors and my tribes that I represent, especially the Wind River Reservation, on getting our viewpoints and the issues that we see out to the forefront in policy.

And I don't just advocate for Indigenous issues, I advocate for people issues.

I always look at the human side first, and I actually put the human part of politics back into policy 'cause that's how I look at legislation.

That's how I look at change.

I'm not scared to speak up.

I'm not scared to reach across the aisle.

I wanna represent Wyoming because I believe in Wyoming, and I believe in my neighbors.

And I believe there is a good, fine middle ground that I can put voice to.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Selvig, extra time if you'd like it?

- Well, absolutely.

I think that being a Constitutionalist and being in the Constitution Party here in Wyoming would also, like Mr. Brubaker said, give the state of Wyoming a little notoriety because there has never, ever been a Constitution Party candidate to win any kind of higher office.

And so I think that that would also be beneficial to Wyoming.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker, you'll have the next question from Katie Roenigk.

- You all have ties to Fremont County, home to Wyoming's only Indian reservation.

What would you do in Congress to represent the interests of your Native American constituents?

- Oh, that's a tough one.

I did drive the taxi here in Riverton for quite a while, and I was appalled at the alcohol problem that took place.

And yet, my son-in-law is Native American.

I have a lot of friends on the reservation.

What can we do?

I don't know.

I don't believe it's more money.

Every time I see money thrown at something, it just turns into a nightmare.

So I would love to see...

I know the tribes do have a business program in the spring, and I actually went to a few of those a few times.

It's a fantastic visitor kind of whatever it was.

And they're on the right track.

They need to figure out how to address a few of the issues.

I had a friend one time that said that you'll never meet a dumb Indian, you'll just find a lot of them that hide their intelligence well.

And I found that to be very true.

They have the capability.

They have the opportunities.

And all I can do is sit there and give them praise for when they do succeed.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.

Ms. Grey Bull?

- Again, you know, I have a track record for advocating for Indian country and advocating for issues that I believe in, and I believe to advocate for others.

I've testified to Congress on the Grizzly Bear Protection Act, on our climate change, on child sex trafficking, on the protection of children and women in sexual assault and rape incidents.

And I have a history of lobbying and I have a history of standing up to that.

I think my resume may speak for itself.

However, there's one issue that is very dear to my heart that I would put on the forefront of policy change, at least bring some voice to it, and I plan to do this whether I'm elected or not, but my aunt, Wilma Spoonhunter, a couple years ago... And how it works on the Wind River Reservation is, when we go to our clinics, we get reviewed or we get diagnosed and we have to get referrals to go to other doctors and specialists.

Long story short, my aunt was referred out many times from different doctors in Fremont County and other parts of the state.

She kept being reported to be diagnosed with bronchitis.

But after six months, they realized that it was not bronchitis.

It took six months to get a referral out of state for her to be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.

Now, I know if there was diversity and equality in our healthcare system that that wouldn't have took that long.

So again, I would want to speak to our medical issues, our medical care, and put diversity (alarm beeping) and inclusion into our healthcare system.

- [Craig] Thank you, Ms. Grey Bull.

Ms. Selvig.

- First of all, I'm sorry that happened to your aunt, Lynnette.

That's terrible.

So I work for a ministry called Foundations for Nations, and we do work out on the reservation.

And I run the food pantry here in town for them, and we see a lot of hurting people.

And I think that it is more the community's responsibility, the local community, to take care of their own local community, but I understand that there are travel obligations and that the federal government has a lot to do with that.

So to actually go along with Lynnette's point, there is legislation that has been put out there this session.

It's H.R.8937, and that is the Restoring Accountability in the Indian Health Service Act of 2022.

And it addresses some of those issues.

It gives incentive to tribal governments, to the state government to bring in more doctors, to provide something similar to the National Health Service Corps for people who have worked on their degree to get reciprocity for their degree to get paid off by moving to an underserved community.

And I think it's things like that where we can make sure that our government and our tribes are being accountable to one another.

I think that is a way that I can work towards making those issues more known and seen in Washington.

Thank you.

- Thank you, Ms. Selvig.

Mr. Brubaker, extra time if you would like it?

- Well, I mean, like I say, I've seen a system in Colombia when I was down there, and if you don't have insurance and can't afford healthcare, you went to the government healthcare program, which is a lot the same.

But the private system was extremely cheap because there was no government involvement.

And I think that'd be a good system for everybody.

- Thank you, we'll continue on now from Kamila Kudelska for Ms. Grey Bull.

- The current administration has moved on actions to deal with student loan forgiveness.

There's been a lot of mixed results, or mixed, yeah, mixed results on that action that the administration is taking.

What do you think should be the long-term play for student loan forgiveness?

- I actually support student loan forgiveness.

I have friends that I went to college with that are still in the process of paying off their loans 20 years down the line.

For anybody who pursues higher education, spends years to go after, you know, different levels of degrees, it doesn't work if they're in a system 20 or even years down the line that they're paying off their student loans because they used these loans to either live off of and focus on their studies.

So me having a college student and two other college students, you know, with my children in the near future, I do believe that, moving forward, that we have the means, we have the mind, we have the knowledge to make the free debt of school loans work for Americans.

But I do believe it takes a lot of people coming to the table to make that decision and how to make that work.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, as someone who is a four-year degree, I have a four-year degree from the University of Wisconsin, and someone who had loans and who paid them off, I think that it is absolutely unacceptable that the president would even consider paying off student loan debts for people, because if you took out a loan for yourself to go to college, then you are responsible to pay that loan.

Because when the government starts behaving like a bank, which it already does, and that's one of the things I hate about government, is that it behaves like a bank, but if the government pays off people's student loans, what is next?

Are they gonna help me pay off my mortgage if I can't afford my mortgage or a car payment if someone has a car payment?

We cannot start down the road of paying off people's personal obligations that they have made for themselves.

It is inappropriate for the government to do that.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, for many, many years, I've felt like the student loan thing was a government-forced thing to support the banks to make sure they get their money back.

If the student loans were based on a business loan concept, if it wasn't a good business loan application, the student wouldn't get the money.

They wouldn't be in debt.

If it's a good business loan, they'll be paid back.

It needs to be turned back over to the private sector versus the government being involved and having the banks, "You're a good risk, you get the loan.

You're not a good risk because you wanna go take a master's in underwater basket weaving, then that isn't going to pay the loan back."

A college degree is a tool, no different than the pickup the contractor drives, the toolbox of the mechanic.

They're a tool, and we have to loan as is this a profitable tool or not?

I think it's just a way to enslave a lot of people into paying for years and years and years of interest.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.

Ms. Grey Bull, extra time.

- I think that's a fine point.

The reason why student loan forgiveness even became a topic is because banks, and I don't wanna call out banks, but the most mainstream banks that the federal government had their hands in was taking people's tax returns away, was taking payments out of their paychecks.

I mean, they were going above and beyond what a bank should do in repayment of a loan.

- Thank you, candidates.

We're gonna pivot a little bit and have our lightning round, and Mr. Peck will have the first lightning round topic for Ms. Selvig.

- Joe Biden.

- Ooh!

Too old to be the president.

(laughs) I think that what has happened to President Biden is elder abuse.

I think that they parade him around in an unacceptable way, and I personally feel like someone else is running the country.

It's not really him.

- Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, at least we aren't paying to incarcerate marijuana dealers, or users at the moment, or is supposed to come to an end.

Other than that, I can't say much good.

- Ms. Grey Bull?

- I think President Biden has proven himself throughout the years that he spent in politics and in Congress, and I hope to see him win again.

- Thank you, the next topic for Mr. Brubaker from Katie Roenigk.

- Harriet Hageman.

- Ah, she's not here tonight.

I think that speaks for itself.

- [Craig] Ms. Grey Bull?

- Again, and I said it before and I'll say it again, I think it was a coward move, and I believe Wyomingites are smarter and intelligent to make their own choice and comb through the candidates and their backgrounds and who they want to represent them.

And Wyoming does not need a coward.

- Ms. Selvig?

- Well, I think that Harriet Hageman is an accomplished attorney, but I also think that she's a party insider, and she is already making connections with people in Washington who are swampy Republicans.

And I don't think that's what Wyoming needs for representation.

- Thank you.

The next topic for Ms. Grey Bull from Kamila Kudelska.

- Liz Cheney.

- (sighs) Look, I have a history with, (laughs) of course, my last cycle, coming against Liz Cheney, and I was glad to be.

At least she showed up at the debate.

I can say that about her, but I will say that she did a tremendous job on the January 6th committee.

I do believe she continues to serve on that and speak to that.

Anything that comes against and impede against our democracy, I think you come (alarm beeping) and you fight tooth, hand, and nail.

And she's proven that.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Selvig?

- I think that Liz Cheney is also an insider politician who works with the swampy Republicans and Democrats in Washington.

That is not what we need.

She has stood up for what she thinks she believes in, and that did not match with Wyoming voters, which is why she is not on this stage tonight.

- [Craig] Mr. Brubaker.

- I believe, I got the feeling that she talks about the Constitution, but she does not believe in the Constitution, just like many of them in Washington, D.C. - Thank you.

Another round of lightning round topics for Ms. Selvig from Mr. Peck.

- January 6th investigation.

- I think the January 6th investigation is ridiculous.

I think it has been a bunch of political theater, and I am certainly glad that it finished today.

- [Craig] Mr. Brubaker.

- Yeah, I think it's just waste of our time, a waste of our tax dollars, and something to try to get us to think of something not important.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Grey Bull?

- Anyone who doesn't support the January 6th committee is either, one, a Trumpster, two, who doesn't believe in our democracy or Constitution.

- Thank you, the next topic for Mr. Brubaker from Katie Roenigk.

- Mass shootings.

- It's a sad fact that, in this much population, with this many people thinking they deserve a living from the government that they just lose it, drugs, whatever.

It's going to happen regardless of what we do.

- Ms. Grey Bull.

- People of color is often, I'm sorry, the question was the mass shootings.

- Mass shootings.

- Yes, so I think we need to do stricter gun background checks.

We see time and time again that people who are mentally unstable are the ones who are doing the mass shootings, but I do not support taking guns away from Wyomingites or any Americans, but I do believe we can do better.

(alarm beeping) - [Craig] Ms. Selvig.

- Well, I think that mass shootings come down to a lack of morality in America.

We have lost our sense of love for our fellow human, and that is the main problem with mass shootings.

It is a heart problem, not a gun problem.

- Thank you, next question for Mr. Brubaker from Katie Roenigk.

- I think it's me.

- Oh, excuse me.

(Kamila laughing) Kamila, please proceed.

- Sorry, abortion.

- Abortion?

William Bradford led 37 Pilgrims to this country seeking religious freedom.

Right at the present time, there are four Christian religions, two Jewish religions, and the Buddhists that are filing suit against these harsh ban abortion laws.

Force freedom of religion.

(alarm beeping) - [Craig] Ms. Grey Bull?

- Women's rights has to be incorporated back into our policy, both statewide and nationwide.

Nobody has a right to tell a woman what to do with their bodies.

And a national poll shows that 65% of Republican women support the abortion and their right to choose.

- [Craig] Ms. Selvig.

- Well, half of the abortions that happen in America are women's bodies, so I would say that abortion is something that is immoral, in my personal opinion.

I think it's a states' rights issue.

I'm glad that it has been returned to the states, and would once again say biology tells us that life begins at conception and the zygote is the first stage of human development.

Thank you.

- All right, candidates, we'll get back on track now with longer-form questions.

Mr. Peck will ask this question for Ms. Selvig.

- Many voters are familiar with sight and sound bites of members of Congress speaking from the House floor or perhaps speaking at a news conference, but the biggest part of a Congress member's job is the committee work.

Are there specific House committees on which you would hope to serve based on your areas of interest or expertise?

- Absolutely, I would love to serve on the House Budget Committee or the House Appropriations Committee because, for me, the federal budget is the most important thing.

Everything that we're going through right now revolves around what the government is doing and how they are spending money.

So those are the first two committees that I'd love to serve on.

I think natural resources would be also interesting, as well agriculture because I think that that is an important place that we need to look at in Wyoming.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, the Budget and Appropriations definitely would be on my list, because of the fact that they both address the spending and the taxation.

I see inflation being caused simply by the overspending of the government and printing of money.

We need to start cutting back on this government and stop wasting so much money.

You know, these government contractors cost us billions and billions and trillions every year, and we need to start cutting these budgets back and returning money back to the people.

Every time we take a dollar out of the private sector, we are taking away people's jobs.

So that'd be a priority.

I'd probably be Interior.

And like I say, I was concerned about the environment when I was a little kid, and we need to figure out more profitable ways than electric cars and all that stuff.

The present EPA legislation and that sort of thing, it's so wasteful to put filters on trucks, on their mufflers, that make them go from 90 gallons for a day trip to 130 gallons.

That's putting more carbon in the air.

That isn't cleaning up the atmosphere.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Grey Bull?

- In my past, I have met with the Tribal Relations Committee, especially my work on missing and murdered Indigenous persons, and had to advocate for federal bills that can impact 575 tribes across our country.

So Tribal Relations would be one of the committees.

Budget and Appropriations will also be another one.

Another one that I'm big on is, of course, the EPA, environmental, and climate change issues.

And also, economic development is something that I'm passionate about.

- Thank you.

Ms. Selvig?

- I actually would.

I thought of another one, and that would be Ways and Means because I am a fair taxer.

I believe in H.R.25, which is the fair tax, and it is a total reforming of our current tax code, and I would love to push for that in Ways and Means.

- Thank you very much.

Mr. Brubaker, you'll have the next question from Katie Roenigk.

- President Biden says he will pardon all prior federal offenses for simple possession of cannabis.

Would you support legislation legalizing cannabis at the federal level, and why or why not?

- Well, personally, I never cared for cannabis when I was young, but if somebody else does, that's their right.

I've seen alcoholism be horrible.

And I talked to a few of them.

I said, "If you'd a been allowed to get cannabis instead of alcohol, do you believe you would be a severe alcoholic now?"

And most of them said, "Probably not."

But there were a few that said, "Yes, I would prefer cannabis over alcohol."

And I've known several people that used cannabis for many, many years, and for whatever reason, they just quit one day and that was it.

And it's not as near the withdrawal that you get from alcohol.

I mean, I've seen people that were in bad shape because of alcohol.

And yeah, cannabis, like I say, I'm not personally a strong supporter, but I know a lot of people that are, and I will support their liberty.

Just because I don't like something doesn't mean I would stop people from doing it, as long as they aren't violent.

I'll have to say one of the big arguments is driving while under the influence of cannabis.

I do believe it's slightly more hazardous than alcohol.

- [Craig] Thank you, Mr. Brubaker.

Ms. Grey Bull.

- Studies have shown that cannabis, CBD oil, and things of that nature has helped cancer patients.

There's been a lot of tremendous studies on there, so for that reason, I do support that.

Unfortunately, I had family members and loved ones pass away from cancer.

I seen it take the pain away, especially going through chemotherapy.

But not just for cancer issues, but also for mental health issues.

I also know veterans that use cannabis oil or CBD oil for their PTSD and for their trauma, and it's been helpful for them.

So we talk about, you know, implementing a cannabis federal legislation.

I also believe there needs to be implementation and amendments to ensure that we're not making it easier for children to obtain cannabis, to buy the candies or, you know, the things that are made out of cannabis.

I think there needs to be a fine line between what is available for medical use and what is use or may be obtained a little bit more better for children or people who are under youth.

But for medical purposes, I definitely support it.

- [Craig] Thank you.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, I don't know if I would necessarily go for legalizing or changing its schedule on a federal level, but I think that that is a states' issue.

And just like Colorado, if Wyoming decides that Wyoming wants to legalize for recreational or medicinal, that's on the people of Wyoming because that would be their responsibility to decide that.

- Thank you.

- Thanks.

- Any extra comments, Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, just that, yeah, I've talked to a lot of people, like Lynnette said, about medical marijuana, that it was a godsend for them.

One gal has a brain tumor.

It's not really growing, just a malignant, I mean, not a malignant, and it gives her a great deal of relief.

- Thank you next question for Ms. Grey Bull from Kamila Kudelska.

- It's been a while since the federal budget has been balanced, and the last time it was, it was from a Democrat.

Why do you think that is?

- I think that it's everybody's job, whether Republican or Democrat, to look at the federal budget.

This is why I said earlier that I would like to serve on the Appropriations and Budget Committee.

I think we can do better.

I think we have the hearts and minds to do better.

Why would a Democrat promote it?

Maybe because, again, they had a passion or the intent to kinda hone in on it.

And, you know, just like anything else and any business or, you know, any form of finances, you have to have structure.

So it's important that there's structure in our federal spending, in our federal budget.

People always like to talk about the federal spending reaching its ceiling, and then we raise the ceiling.

I mean, these things need to be discussed, and it has to be a bipartisan approach.

I think all party affiliations should be involved when we talk about budget, federal budget issues, but it's something that is needed and it's something that we can't ignore.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, you know, it was Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich.

So God bless them for having a balanced budget.

(laughs) So I looked at the debt this morning, and it was 31 trillion, 140 billion, and that is just an unacceptable amount of money.

And, you know, how did they do that?

I think that people were serious about budgetary reform back then.

And since then, people have become more dependent upon the government.

Government programs have expanded.

More and more money is being printed by the Federal Reserve, which needs to go away.

80% of our debt has been added in the last 20 years, and that is, I mean, I'm almost 40, that is half of my lifetime.

Our debt has risen to $31 trillion, and it's unsustainable.

It's what's causing all of the inflation in America.

You can say whatever you want about other issues, but it's the spending of money we don't have and the continual creating of credit that doesn't exist out of anything by the Federal Reserve.

And so I think those are issues that we need to take very seriously, and shrinking the government will help with those things.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Mr. Brubaker?

- Well, I'm starting to believe that the American people actually love being in debt.

They keep voting for it.

If somebody wants to express their opinion, this is my fourth time running, and only 4% of the people say they want to reduce the government.

So I have come to the conclusion that we American people love being in debt.

We have our credit cards.

We have our car loans.

We have our student loans, all these loans, and we just think of debt.

The United States, everybody brags about us being the richest nation in the world, and yet, we're $30 trillion in debt.

How does being $30 trillion in debt equal rich?

It just looks like foolish bankers to me.

So yeah, I mean, we do need to balance the budget.

First thing I would do, any bill that came into the office to me and my staff, which would be reduced, over four hours to go through, into the trash can.

If it had anything about unnecessary spending, into the trash can.

And that is how we start doing it.

We start limiting our bills.

No more of these bills like the healthcare bill, and we stop being so dependent on the government and its debt.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Grey Bull, you have some extra time.

- Just like in any issue, any issue in the national level, it takes people coming together, discussing it, and combing through it, and making sure that it's appropriated correctly.

This is just one of the many issues that we see on the federal level that needs addressing.

So, you know, I stand on what I said in the beginning, it takes both parties.

It takes everybody coming to the table to address it and see what the issues are and see what can be done to change it.

- Thank you very much.

Ms. Selvig, you'll have the next question from Mr. Peck.

- Apart from work on legislation, an important component of any Congress member's job is constituent services, namely, assisting people back home from time to time on problems related to veteran services or Medicare or Social Security, the IRS, or other matters.

In recent months, stories have been reported involving constituent services in some states being delayed or even ignored if the person requesting them was not a voter registered in the member's own party or if it was believed that the constituent had not voted for that member.

Should this type of political evaluation play any role in how a member of Congress responds to a constituent's request for assistance?

- Absolutely not.

That is very terrible that people are not getting served by their representatives.

I don't even know what to say about that, other than shame on whoever did that to their constituents.

I think that communication as a part of those constituent services is very important, and I for one want to be available to the citizens of Wyoming in whatever means I can in order to respond to them personally.

I hope to have great staff who can also field those questions and issues when I am in Washington, but I think that that is unacceptable for any representative in America to play favorites with constituents that didn't vote for them or did, unacceptable.

- [Craig] Mr. Brubaker.

- Well, I thought about this quite a bit, and with today's technology, there is no reason why we couldn't do a Zoom to a fire hall, a Zoom to an FFA or 4-H meeting.

The representatives nowadays, with all this technology, should be in front of the people every spare chance they get.

And with Zoom, I wouldn't have to hop on an expensive plane flight and fly back.

I could sit there and talk to those organizations or the individual.

I mean, it's ridiculous that people fly in.

They go to their little party meetings and then fly back to Washington, D.C. at the expense of the people.

If I'm going to fly home, it will be for the people, not the party.

Other than that, I'll get somebody on my staff that can figure out all this technology and we will talk.

(Craig chuckles) - [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Grey Bull.

- You know, talking about this and hearing these other candidates speak to it, it's important that, and this is another reason that it's important to elect candidates that have integrity, that have honesty, that is transparent, that is able to meet people on the ground level, so to speak, and not play favorites.

Again, this is a part of doing what's right and not doing what's right, what you think is right for yourself as a representative, but doing what's right for people, doing what's right for their needs, doing what's right for your state and the office that you hold.

To me, this is an integrity issue, and those things only get addressed, and, you know, those things only change by electing those who hold that integrity to a high standard.

- Candidates, we have time for one more question, and I'm going to limit your response to one minute so that we can fit our time schedule, with a 30-second rebuttal for our timer there.

This question is from Katie Roenigk for Mr. Brubaker.

- What role do you think the United States should be playing in Ukraine?

- Zero.

I feel it is not my responsibility to pass a tax to take money away from the working man to fight a war in the Ukraine.

I would strongly support, through the federal government, a fund, but it would be like the GoFundMe on the internet.

It would be my choice as to whether I wanted to help the Ukrainian people.

I've been following that war through a very reputable individual, and I really admire those people.

I mean, they've stood up to Russia, that the United States is scared of.

And they've held their ground.

And I would definitely donate what little I could.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Grey Bull.

- You know, being a Native American and holding the history that I hold with my tribes and my ancestors, you know, when we see another, bigger government impede on a sovereign nation, that kinda hits home for me.

We've seen Putin and Russia come and attacked Ukraine, and we've seen the devastations that happen to families and children and women and how that their country was torn apart.

So, yes, I do believe that we should play a role on supporting Ukraine.

We should play a role on making sure that this doesn't happen in other parts of the country.

The Criminal Tribunal Act we have with the United Nations is in place so that other countries don't do this to other countries, that bigger countries don't impede on smaller countries and do this exact same thing.

And if we are a country of freedom and democracy, we have every bit of role to play (alarm beeping) in the war in Ukraine.

- Thank you very much.

Ms. Selvig?

- Well, I, like Mr. Brubaker, think we should not be involved in Ukraine.

We should've been out of there before we even started.

It is unacceptable for us to be continuing to entangle alliances with other nations.

Thomas Jefferson warned us of that.

He did not believe in entangling alliances with other nations, and playing favorites is something that George Washington also talked about not doing.

I think that it is time for us to disengage.

I don't like the fact that we were part of the problem that started it in 2014 with the coup that we helped facilitate, which was unacceptable.

And I think that it is also time for us to withdraw from NATO because it is no longer serving America.

It may have started with good intentions, but there is no point for America to be involved in European border issues when we have our own border problems that we have to deal with in our own nation.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

Mr. Brubaker?

- I've looked at quite a bit of history, and the Russian has been picking on the Ukraines for a long, long time, but it's still their problem.

Every war in my lifetime, well, yeah, every war in my lifetime has always backfired.

We need to be out of there and let the dust settle because we seem to mess things up when we go there.

- Candidates, this ends the question and answer part of tonight's debate.

It is now time for closing statements, and we'll go in reverse order, so that means that you're first, Ms. Grey Bull.

- Thank you, Wyoming PBS, for this great debate.

It's always good to come and join and participate and share our various views here.

I think that's what democracy is all about, so thank you, and thank you to my fellow candidates.

It's been a lovely debate.

I am a mother.

I am a daughter.

I am a sister.

I am an auntie.

But to Wyoming, I am a human being who is willing to reach across the aisle and do what's right and get the job done.

And when I look at legislation, I don't look at party affiliation.

I look at what is the most crucial need for the people who need it the most?

Yes, I wanna put equality back in we the people.

I wanna put equality back in the Equality State.

I do what's fair, I do what's just, what is right for my fellow Wyomingites.

I believe in supporting hardworking Americans who, like myself, get up and work eight to five and sometimes longer just to make ends meet.

I like to give voice to change.

I like to give voice to people who need it the most, because no American citizen, regardless of color or status, should fight to have a seat at the table.

And a lot of times, myself, as an Indigenous person, or people of color or people who may have lower status have to fight to have a seat at the table.

And I wanna ensure that we all have a voice and a seat at the table, and this is my promise.

- [Craig] Thank you very much, Ms. Grey Bull.

Mr. Brubaker.

- Well, I wanna thank PBS, and like I said, Wyoming is one of the few places where all candidates that are gonna be on the ballot get to debate.

One of my big issues is there is no me, I, or mine in the Constitution.

Those words do not exist in that piece of paper, so I have to look at the individual rights.

The individual rights are, if you work, you should be able to keep your money.

If you have this religious view, you should be able to practice that religious view.

If you wanna do this substance, as long as it's not interfering with other people's lives, you should have that freedom.

I think we need to cut the spending in the government.

We need to bring our troops home.

I held my draft card in my hand while I watched them push helicopters off the airplanes, or off the aircraft carriers from Vietnam.

Not much difference between that and the Taliban, or Afghanistan.

And now, I hear the Taliban in Afghanistan is starting to crumble because the people do not support them.

We wasted how many trillions of dollars in the Middle East?

We need to bring that to an end.

The profits of the casket makers needs to be cut.

- [Craig] Thank you very much.

Ms. Selvig.

- Well, again, like my opponent said, I thank you so much, Wyoming PBS and Central Wyoming College, for hosting us tonight.

Again, my name is Marissa Selvig.

I am the Constitution Party candidate for U.S. House.

I feel called to make a difference for our nation, for my four children and for your children and your grandchildren.

It is not acceptable for them to have to become slaves to the government and the globalists, and I will fight to maintain their liberty.

You know, if you are satisfied, like I said before, with the status quo, then keep voting for Republicans and Democrats because nothing will change in Washington if you're not willing to send something new there.

And I would encourage you to take a chance.

Take a chance on a Constitutionalist.

Take a chance on someone younger, someone who's gonna bring solutions and have fresh ideas and be willing to work with people on all sides of the aisle without having to take orders from anyone.

I believe in a new three R's for America, which are revelation, revival, and restoration.

That's a revelation of truth, a revival of spirituality and morality and health, and a restoration of constitutional government.

Those things are things that we need in America.

So I ask for your vote on November 8th, and I promise to uphold my oath to the Constitution and to do it with integrity, to be honest, to conduct myself with virtue, and that I will work towards making America prosperous again and keeping Wyoming free.

Be blessed, and stay free.

- Thank you very much, candidates.

It's been a privilege for Wyoming PBS to continue its decades-long tradition of allowing candidates to bring Wyoming voters your own views in your own voices, unfiltered, and we are glad that you participated with us this evening.

As the candidates have said tonight, we encourage voters to vote on November 8th or to exercise your right to vote absentee, if that's what you're doing now.

Our thanks to Jennifer Amend, again, for serving as our timekeeper for tonight's debate, and to my colleagues and friends Steve Peck, Katie Roenigk, and Kamila Kudelska for being on tonight's panels.

This concludes Wyoming PBS's debate season.

We thank you for watching, and please, on November 8th, exercise your right to vote.

Thank you for joining us.

(upbeat patriotic music)